Meeting minutes, 19 September 2010
All they discussed was about 2.5 progress. They also upgraded project manager and bug tracker to Fusion Forge but they have some problems with database importing.
Ton Roosendaal writes:
Hi all,
Here’s topics we discussed today, all about Blender 2.5x progress.
Nathan Letwory reports that since 2.54 100 new bug reports came in, but 144 were closed! The total is down to 339 now.
- Another Windows user complained about losing .blend files when doing an uninstall. After discussion, two solutions have been mentioned. One is to ensure the default path on opening file window is set to ‘cwd’ or ‘home’. The other is that Nathan can limit uninstall to the installed files, and keep the directory around.
- Campbell reports we need to work still on how Python operators work within or without context (‘data’ context). The meeting discussed some cases, but no clear answers popped up yet. Ton mentioned to at least not try to Pythonify the C code when that’s not fully finished or frozen.
- Animation system: the dependency graph still fails in cases where 2.4x did work. Bassam Kurdali will provide simple .blend cases for bug tracker. Ton proposed to at least hardcode fix the current C code for all transformation related properties. Dependencies involving custom properties or other non-transform topics (like colors) will be moved to the todo as a 2.6 topic.
- Projects.blender.org and bug tracker upgrade to Fusion Forge halted on a database import, this is being put high on agenda for blender.org system admin.
Thanks,
-Ton-
boring news… we need more devs on bmesh ^^
…boring news…. a remarkable sense of humor !
…but we need a microwave integration for 2.7 !
seriously bmesh looks very interesting and i believe it will find its way into blender ;)
Keep up your work guys, don’t pay any attention to stenosis-like-users! Before taking another development step get rid of all the bugs to make Blender 2.5x solid!
I’m glad Ton is there to keep Campbell from Pythonising everything in sight.
He might reinstate the VRML1 code that Campbell stripped out without consultation while he is at it.
Blender will become a slovenly Python application with little bits of legacy C if Campbell has his way.
Campbell is a good guy but he needs supervision to keep his enthusiasm in check.
thank you Big Ton! ;)
Thank you all for all the hard work you do for us Blender users. It must get tiresome at times, but thank you for pushing through and making this, the most wonderful tool ever!
I love new features as much as the next guy, but Blender will only be taken seriously if it is a rock-solid production tool. Let’s get the bugs at least under 25 first, and keep ’em there. Squash…squash…squash!
Appreciate the re-posting of the minutes here unlike some :P
Every build and beta I pick up just seems much more stable, than the last.
Keep on keeping on lads, features after fixes I say :D
I have a problem with the 2.5 UI. A stupid one, I don’t know if it worths even posting it in the bug tracker.
Open Blender, maximize the window.
You can notice the info bar (File, Menu, etc. etc) is not completely at the bottom of the screen. You can move it upward by two or three pixels. I know, it’s stupid but disturbs me a lot. XD
Ohoh. This news doesn’t sound so good.
I think news of bugs should have a macro view. http://www.letworyinteractive.com/b/2010/09/blender-foundation-status-update-week-37/
I also went back in my in box to March 2nd and the svn number was 27230 today its 32013 thats 4783 changes… Not all to trunk and not all bug fixes. Thats allot of changes in just over 6 months. I am wondering what people 1. complaining about 2. thinking that they could do better in practice($) not just lofty ideas.
Thank you for all hard work. The news is bleak but I think it’s better to not mention BMesh until it’s actually in the branch. Everytime there’s a BMesh news, it always accompanied by a big but. We are working on it, but… Here’s a video showing how it would work, but….. We are trying to merge into the branch, but… I am kidding here guys.
This is all just part of growing pains. We just need to get over these humps and then Blender will be super awesome again.
Keep up the good work Devs!
Keep squishing those bugs! One of the main reasons why I stopped using blender for now is because it was so unstable…
With the first point about windows. The first really needs to be done whether or not you do the second as Vista onwards should not allow a non administrator to write to the program files directory. Windows 7 will but it redirects to a file to be inside a hidden folder inside the users home folder and looks there first. It’s just a whole lot easier to write non install files where the user is supposed to be allowed to read and write them.
@mjordan
Try maximizing the window, resize the info bar so it fits, then update your defaults (ctrl+u).
Killing the bugs faster than they are breeding – now that is progress! Ditto what dxtx said “Every build and beta I pick up just seems much more stable than the last.”
Still cannot get Blender 2.5X to work satisfactorily on my OpenSUSE box, All the icon images disappear after a while, I’ll leave a not tonight as to when this happens but I think it is after using some menu items
Otherwise, I think the new version is fantastic
@Big Fan, python has its place but I’m definitely not for using python all over blender, infact Im not very happy with python for render engine integration and think we should focus on better ways to have C/C++ plugins which are more usable then in 2.4x.
– The fact blender now starts so slow because of python bothers me so I think we should be much more careful as to how python is used.
The problem is at the moment Im not assigned to work on python api improvements (much), but to fix bugs, so some of these problems will remain for a while.
As for VRML1 & Inventor formats, these are really really old, there was no access in 2.5x and nobody reported this or asked for it.
From reading over the code the support was quite basic so I dont think many people seriously used these, at least not in a while.
If I’m wrong and these are worth keeping then rewinding the commit is very simple too and can be done.
if your not happy with specific commits you can also join the mailing list and reply to them.
Well I tackled you last time you tried to clean VRML out along with other stuff…ok so perhaps you dont remember.. :(
If you have a CAD program VRML and STL are about the only options to get a model into Blender for animation and rendering and maybe then on to Lux or Octane.
3ds , obj, dae etc dont really intersect with the engineering world.
Old though it may be VRML is still useful and the STL format is used for rapid prototyping printers.
I seriously need this and so do others with the same intent. I ask you to please reconsider.
Blender isnt a CAD program either but we still have users who want to use it for architecture purposes and want dxf.
The code is already in there in C – or it was -. I need the speed of C. Some machinery models I bring over presently have a thousand parts/meshes and take a while anyway.
I do use a Blender 2.49 script that batch loads VRML and rotates applies edge split mods etc etc but making use of Blender.Load.
Even if you dont want VRML in the import menu can you at least leave the C code in there to call with Load for the few people that want it?
The reason I havent said anything about VRML not being accessible is because I have been patiently waiting for these formats to be reintroduced along with all the other stuff that is being done. We dont want to hastle our coders you know. It was all slowly coming back together and then I read by chance via graphicall.org it is axed :(
I made a grumpy post at Blender Artists a few days ago but apparently you dont read there.
Its not your commits I am unhappy about its when you just take it on yourself to remove stuff. Next time at least ask the community before you do it.
Thanks :) Sorry to post here. I dont usually have a need to complain and therfore be a participant on the mailing list. I leave the coders to their own important technical talk I dont understand anyway.
my remarkable sense of humor is also that you need following things for a higher marketshare:
1. advanced and proper mesh tools (bmesh)
2. stability, sure thing
3. performance optimizations
4. external renderer’s
you guys have been squashing a lot of bugs, so the next beta release that comes up should really be stable
Have you considered using cython?
Great progress there :D
I’m going to have to chime in and agree with Big Fan on the need for VRML for CAD import. While I tend to go with STL more often due to its accuracy, it has the limitation of not supporting “assembly” CAD models directly. Thus workarounds are usually required and not always possible there. Its nice to have this VRML support because, despite its limitations, it is so widely implemented in other 3D apps.
BF: could you post a link to that import script (for 2.4x) you mentioned? Thnx! Could come in handy.
Note to other CAD users: the “Inventor” format to which Cambell refers is NOT Autodesk Inventor™ (as I had onced hoped, myself) but rather a very old legacy application about which very little is google-able. Sorry to disappoint. Would be nice to have more mainstream CAD import options, such as STEP or IGES, eh? (Good thing there’s HeeksCAD to the rescue in a pinch!) :-)
Great work, Barton, tho! Keep it up!
@Big Fan, mzungu: in current code there is no way to even import the formats that Campbell removed. Taking in account that it was mentioned that these formats can come back as python scripts, there is no loss for you incurred. Current situation stays the same for you.
Just keeps getting better and better!!! more power to blender!!!
Poor Windoze users has problems. As allways ;)
Nathan I dont know if you were paying attention but I said I really need the speed of C.
Thats what my complaint is about – the loss of import executed in C
Sure it could be done in python but I want to get my work done.
If it already can take me 20 mins to batch load some scenes. Do you think waiting on all python is going to be practical?
How can the existing code not work? All it needed was to linked up properly after the big makeover. Since Campbell is the guy who made the decision how about he answers for it.
and i say once mor, do you even considered using cython?
Google it if you are unsure.
Things like loading meshes, and simlar kind of data which needs a lot of iterating over same variable type benefit most from cython..
mzungu its part of a now old exporter for Indigo I hacked to suit my purposes.
I havent got around to making a tidy script with just the batch loader bit etc.
I would consider doing it but if vrml is to be banished to python permanently I may as well wait to see what that is about before adding to it.
ok punkvoid I thought you were making a joke, sorry. ;)
I’ll look it up thanks
@Noah: It doesn’t work. If you resize the window and then re-maximize it, you’ll have the same problem. The info bar must be rearranged.
@Big Fan, one of the projects I’m going to work on after bugfixing is to allow C/C++/Cython modules to be included with blender which speedup format import/export, I’ve looked into this a bit and dont think its so hard to do, even have some example code on how to get this working with build systems and pass the data to C.
This means we can have scripts and possibly addons which have C components for speed but don’t need to bloat blenders executable.
If for some reason this whole plan fails then something else can be arranged – C code added back or some other C/C++ plug-in system integrated for this.
Ok thanks Campbell that sounds promising. As long as we can maintain decent performance for mesh in/out I am happy. I dont want to be difficult but rather make sure we keep valuable stuff or capability even if its not in mainstream awareness.
I would actually welcome a little flexibility from having the code accessible in a script for hacking by artists for specific purposes like batch processing. If cython bridges the two worlds thats handy. Honestly I didnt know about cython. It seems other Blender users could benefit from having C in proximity to python as well so from the little I know or understand I’d be quite agreeable to you pursuing this as a general solution with a fallback to the previous way if itdoesnt work out.
There so we found a compromise. :)
Thanks for responding.
Let me get up on the soapbox and lobby for CAD model importing. I do a lot CAD modeling work and pull the CAD models (via VRML batch loader) into blender for rendering to produce customer presentations. The blender 2.5x series definitely needs CAD model importing whether its IGES, STEP, VRML, I don’ care as long you can import assemblies as constrained parts.
I also want to voice support for a CAD importer. We have been using blender as very good tool to produce rendering of our data. We do aerodymic simulations and we like to import our data and models to render them. So for us CAD format capabilities make or break Blender for our purposes.
Hi everyone
Thought I’d follow the advice above.
I also would like to be able to import VRMLs into Blender 2.5.
VRML files aare the only format i can get, for some projects I would like to create.
Thank you to any and all that are building Blender.
~fred
(quite the 3d Animation novice, looking to learn…)