2.80 RC2 – Blender Today Live #70 – With Ton Roosendaal
Ton Roosendaal will be making an appearance in today’s Blender Today Live to answer questions about the Epic MegaGrant.
“Better safe than sorry.”
Blender.Today is a weekly live show highlighting the latest news on Blender 2.80 and the community.
Question for Ton.
So with this large sponsored team and business like organisation where do the amateur users fit in now?
It used to be Blender was made by an army of volunteers of various abilities but a common enthusiasm.
It seems like the notion of anyone contributing to Blender code in reality is moving away from the realm of the evening or weekend warrior. Blender also now has a large spectrum of paid for add-ons, tutorials of a professional nature.
It seems that a by-product of this arrival in the ‘pro’ world is that the small user is going to be marginalised or relegated and that community participation will be less fun/rewarding/spontaneous than it has been.
Essentially we are left looking on at the activities of the core development unit and resident artists and we loose a sense of ownership or involvement or setting direction?
Given that blender will always remain GPL I don’t think there is any risk of amateur users being locked out.
Making the code better managed means it should be easier for an outsider jump in and make changes. I don’t think anything will stop them from being able to share those changes either, and I’m pretty sure the only barrier would be getting those changes folded back into the master – which should be something that involves vetting to ensure “default” blender remains as stable and usable as possible.
As for paid add-ons, the increased industry attention attracts developers who see a potential market, but the alternative would likely be that the plugin simply not existing at all. And there’s still nothing stopping anyone from making their own free alternatives and sharing those as well.
For example, Flip fluids looks amazing and for a price you can have it now, but mantaflow is still being developed and will eventually be a core part of blender.
Hmmm perhaps, I think though many people will feel they cannot code to a high enough standard or wont like their work having to be rewritten by someone else to be included. Maybe people with beginning or average skills and limited time will stop doing and sharing things as they have in the past and leave it to the ‘professionals’. It is a bit of an enthusiasm killer if the grade is high or maybe there develops an attitude toward small time miracle hackers.
You know Ton regards a lot of community as noise. Here perhaps we conveniently burn off unwanted low fruit. I admit I feel less and less belonging to a community. Sometimes now it is like being trapped in an on going infomercial. Support this , buy that…
I presume the add-ons will be policed for standards as well. One of the things said about the Octane Blender version when it came out was that it was quite rough code. I presume all stuff like this is now subject to BI approvals as well?
It just seems less and less like ‘open’ is free and easy.
Your concerns and honest feelings in all honor, this is ridiculous.
This new money will improve onboarding people, noone is excluded to contribute. Yes quality of code is going up, so is the complexity of the whole Blender project, but that’s to everyone’s benefit. The “noise” comment from Ton is clearly referring to the people saying “i want this” on pretty much every single topic. Even more true with the evergrowing userbase. Ofc with limited ressources (time and people(= money)) you should filter this “noise” (not meaning these voices are any less valid) and allocate your time to the users which apparently have a higher understanding of what they need or want and/or go the extra mile to get involved. Who else would you listen to? Or who else would you want them to listen to, given many of us donate to the dev fund. I certainly think they are making the right decisions.
(And then also you need the developer skillfull and willing to code it)
I absolutely understand the feeling of change, but the community is what you make it and where you look for it. I can find solutions and ideas to most every issue within minutes or hours, going to stackexchange or bA or asking the many friends i made during the years in this community.
Cheers mate, you should be happy about these things. :)
No hard feelings
No matter what happens, BIG_FAN will always find something negative to say. Some people are like that.
Seems he’s making a case now for a lower-quality Blender, so it’s easier for developers to participate. It makes no sense, just ignore him.
” And there’s still nothing stopping anyone from making their own free alternatives and sharing those as well. ”
” It just seems less and less like ‘open’ is free and easy. ”
New here, not taking ‘sides’, but seems to me, that comment from OP, isn’t insulting or mean, seems a decent way of judging intent, to me.
Thats inaccurate, to say ‘anyone’ can make their own free alternatives is a stretch, but sure.
We can’t all code but learning and I”m not where near phython using UE4 ( love it) , but millions of us, do share one thing: we can’t afford anything else, so just shut up, sit down, learn to code, stop complaining. We know. Blender IS amazing, thank god it exists, be grateful. We all are, but in a OSS ENV not all is always roses.
I feel like its capitalism speaking through the prisom of OSS ,and speaking of alternatives, why YES I do:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+ted+resource+gaesd+ecponomy&view=detail&mid=3A2C2B87C574797A19703A2C2B87C574797A1970&FORM=VIRE
Its VERY Short, worthy of anyones time, EYE opening, serious.
Yes not on topic entirely, but we are talking about the subject of many not being able to use non free add-ons, unless they can code-so I”d say thats more than fair.
Regardless, anyone that is ‘here’, can’t afford anything else, most seriously likely, but just because that is almost always true, doesn’t take away from blender being incredible amongst a thankful community.
Thankful doesn’t tho, have to mean subject to never asking concerning questions, I just hope if I ever do and no one is perfect, that no one thinks so little of me to say just ignore me.
You don’t always know, the person you never see in person, only on a website, so in todays world it’s far too easy to make such impersonal judgements, and that should give us all great pause.
SO ya, there are addons I’d love to have, to try out, no way I can afford them, on disbility ( unless things have since changed given my last post on blender forums, not here, new ).
THe world is not in the best optimal place, hence OP’s question, and outside of his specific need, he makes for better or worse (* and I do NOT know him, just saw his post today, accicentally looking for blender info on curve to mesh oddly enough) a fair enough point- maybe he’s having a bad day, hard to say , always try to be kind bc I don’t know their situation, life happens.
OAO
Thanks Bart,
I can always rely on you to purposely misconstrue my post and smear my character at the same time.
I would not ignore or label you no matter what you thought.
It is annoying when someone thinks differently from the group and speaks their opinion isn’t it?
Ideally we all erupt into cheers and applause and don’t consider any details or consequences for ourselves or others.
I am concerned this move may have the side effect of putting people off contributing as they have.
Nothing wrong with that view.
Blender has always worked pretty well even if the code was apparently not the prettiest and bugs are fixed very quickly. I really wonder if the user is going to notice if the code is more regimented internally.
My impression before Ton’s statement was that it wasn’t that bad and considering how much time for instance Campbell has spent tidying it up. Now that people need to meet a pro standard to contribute meaningfully it seems logical to me that we will discourage some people even if they are just having fun with Blender’s accessibility.
You can’t just direct everyone else’s interest into carrying water for the official team.
There are definitely things to work through at this stage in Blender’s evolution and it makes good sense to declare where amateurs can fit in the big scheme.
Perhaps you can ask Ton too if this new heavy responsibility for observing commercial quality and accountability means he will finally publish basic accounts for the BF? something that has been asked for a long while ago and has always been resisted as being ‘private’.
(Oh sorry I know I shouldn’t talk about that – it might be seen as hostile rather than transparent..) ;)
Incidentally I see on Blender Artists currently a thread about e-cycles and how that seems to have gone sour for the developer and I assume he is near pro level.
While not quite the same I think it illustrates how BF/BI needs to consider ‘what and how’ in terms of acceptance.
There are naturally people who would like or need to recover their costs and cover their interests until then, and others who perhaps just like to do stuff as a not-so-serious hobby.
To my mind there ought to be some identified criteria or structure to work to, some pathway to follow where people have confidence they are not wasting their time or that their particular interest is too small to be included no matter how good.
Likewise tinkerers and Sunday afternoon hackers should feel they have a place in the community without being put in a sandbox away from the adults as it were.
I am not opposed to the ambitions Ton has for Blender but I think this whole matter needs just a bit more thought.
Wow… Super Wow. Seeing the progress of Blender through the years. Now working with Blender 2.80. And on Top knowing that there are so many great people working on Blenders Future.
You folks and especially Ton can be so pround of your work for this wonderful Software called Blender.
Thank you all so much
I liked specially the part were it’s mentioned the “Interactive mode/Game engine” possible comeback.
I loved the old game engine. I now use “Unity” for professional projects and I’m an “Armory” fan/follower/admirer but even so Blender Game Engine demos was the first thing I’ve seen when a Portuguese magazine talked about Blender back in 2001, so if it comes back I’ll definitely use it to make something cool :)