Interview: Nathan Letwory on the drop of QuickTime in 2.58
The drop of QuickTime support in windows-builds of 2.58 has been quite controversial. The main reason for its being dropped is the incompatibility of Quicktime’s licence with GPL. BlenderDiplom asked Nathan Letwory, one of the release-managers for windows, about the reasons for that decision and how the process of decision-making took place.
Nathan Letwory on the drop of QuickTime in 2.58
Bad, i was trying to get the sdk for a build but i couldn’t because of the cost for developer, i was waiting for this decision.
Anyway this format is used common by advertising agency ’cause the have a lot o mac machines on their offices.
Just convert your file format when you have your end product if you really need it.
Why do people still use Apple products? They cost more money and constantly have compatibility issues. Other than an elitist thing, I just don’t get it. Why pay hundreds of dollars more for the privilege of saying “Um, yeah, it’s great, except it doesn’t play Flash”?
I’ve never been a fan of Apple products. Why in the world would I want to pay 2 to 3 times the price for something I could get in a PC?
I reviewed the entire earlier “controversy” and am a little confused. I have not used psd import in Blender but always found GIMP’s PSD import to work fine. WHy doesn;t someone simply use the psd loading and saving code from gimp and roll it into blender either internally or as an optional I/O add on?
Or just use GIMP to do a quick conversion to xcf when neccesary. Maybe real PS users can set me straight – is GIMP’s conversion lame in many cases? It’s always worked fine for me…
Re : QT, I can see why the Mac users would be bummed out, but I would also maintain that in a real world workflow, asset conversion is a miniscule part of the process, can be easily done in the background while getting other work done, and working with GPL friendly formats and converting a final to QT via final cut etc. ought not be a big deal.
i.e. those who want to use non gpl formats certainly must be using non gpl software as well, right? Like us, we use Sony Vegas for all of our video editing, and Blender is NOT friendly with the very useful Cinform codec. So we DEAL with it.
When we need to do fx shots we simply work with image sequences, which is lossless and predictable to work with.
Furthermore, everytime I’ve ever used QT with ANY app (on windows) it’s been quirky, unstable, and brutally slow.
Just my $0.02
we are using blender with unity and photoshop to create textures in our toolchain. direct psd texture load saved us many many time. with 2.58 we cannot just save the PSD file and alt+r reload it in blender. this decision didn’t make things better… imo it broke many adapted workflows. please bring PSD support back! until that, blender 2.58 and above is a no go.
I love my Mac! There :) I don’t give a toss what you use, and I don’t hate it either. Whatever makes you happy, go for it.
There is really no reason to be bummed out for Mac users. Just instead of choosing a video format render it into an image sequence and then use QuickTime Pro to convert that image sequence into your desired video format.
Quicktime Pro is (or was) available for Mac and Windows cost $30 which is not really an expense if you really need quicktime.
The only video files I really need are AVI, Divx, Xvid, DVD and 1080P BLUray video.
Quicktime is propiety and starting to fall out of use. It is not used as much in advertising agencies as it once was and its use is decreading steadily.
I think it is a good idea to have the ability to import and output files in as many formats as possible.
Maybe as an option, a plugin if that’s what it takes? Willingly crippling a fantastic product in my own opinion is more hateful that the fact that the option MAY not entirely be up to GPL specs.
“I guess one could look at integrating a lib that handles GIF or PSD”
Yes Please :)
full ack clayton. many people are using blender as a professional tool, deleting features we are familiar with is just a huge mistake.
If you don’t like Apple keep it for yourself – nobody really cares if you don’t understand other products.
This is not the topic of this post.
The main problem is that in todays time we still have an issue
of cross formats which support alpha channels and lossless compression.
My only attachment to QT was rendering into the animation codec since ages because of the lossless compression
and this worked great for both platforms.
You can render into image sequences via PNG or TIFF but is that really a great way to work cross-platform?
But I think this issue is quite manageable with a different workflow.
Image sequences can still be put into a movie container (MOV) with various tools, just not directly from Quicktime.
Curious question would be what actually the BlenderFoundation used for their production.
I don’t use Windows, Quicktime, or a 32-bit OS, so this really doesn’t concern me, but honestly, I’d still use and love Blender even if it was only able to import and export a single weirdo video format that nothing else understood, as long as there was some way to convert.
This was the correct decision to make. I feel for those who miss the feature, but it just doesn’t make sense in a multiplatform, open project like this. And it’s not hard to convert your data if you need to. This is not “crippling” anything.
And, the nature of the open beast is that as long as someone who’s knowledgeable about this stuff cares, yes, there will be some hacked plugin or special build or something that keeps this functionality around. And if, someday, Apple decides not to be so ridiculous with their terms, maybe it will even get merged back in to Blender proper. Stranger things have happened.
now it’s the time for the new SMPTE standard in video compression: vc-2 (Dirac) completely GPL completely libre
http://www.diracvideo.org/
quicktime sucks.
PSD is a very important format… you can load it without Quicktime.
I fully support the removal of any non-free formats from Blender or any other software. Free protocols and formats is the foundation of the World Wide Web. Because of free protocols and formats we can have this single platform that connects us, and is accessible to anyone connected to the Internet, no matter which computer, operating system or web browser he/she chooses to use.
I’ve always had more problems with the QT format than any other format (just in general, not blender)
The QT player is even worse being forced to download iTunes which is possibly the worse audio manager I’ve ever seen.
So, I personally could care less.
I’m selling my clips through iStockphoto and the video format/compression they use is QT – Photo Jpeg.
Does that means that I won’t be able to use Blender from this version on to render my -final- clips?
BTW I know I can render PNG sequences and all, but…
It’s a bummer.
QuickTime really needs to die, and not only in Blender.
I don’t care about QuickTime support.
I always found better and quicker Time using other formats.
i agree gundam, but blender want to be a professional tools in professional environments. the “problem” is, that these are using proprietary tools so there must be a possibility for a crossover.
quicktime did really good job in handling PSD files, which is essential for our workflow. in our case, without psd support more than 300 textures need to be converted and more than 500 files need to be relinked… ugly… not?
we’ll stick with 2.57 but also hope for a PSD file support in future releases.
Just want to contribute this: A billion flies can’t be wrong !!!
I think it’s only a matter of time before we see an Add-On for PSD support. I don’t think it’s necessary to have QuickTime support to have PSD support–perhaps there’s another way around it. I was thinking about trying a shot at making an PSD support Add-On one myself, but I’ve got my hands full with my own projects, plus a big move to a new state I’ve got to plan for. And personally, I didn’t use PSD file very much in Blender, but I can see its usefulness. I hope people who do use it get an Add-On sometime in the future.
For the love of the gods, please tell me NONE of you are rendering animations out to movie files of any format, let alone QuickTime.
If you are, please drop the the ridiculous notion that you are using Blender in a professional capacity.
I know of no-one in the post world who renders stuff out directly to a video file…
I would rather like to see people would actually search for a solution for the problems before they try to dictate “a better way” for the sake of a license…so:
nathan,
please check/ google the psdparse libs. Although they still need some quicktime sdk includes, (wich shouldn’t be that big problem to work around.) the whole library would actually improve psd import (single layer readout etc).
I always thought it was safer to render to image sequences anyway. If you’re working on large scenes with big render times you don’t want to start again from the beginning if your machine crashes halfway through. That’s hours lost. At least with image sequences you can recover frames already finished.
If it’s a liscencing issue, that is just the way it is. And I tend to agree that image sequences are the way to go for most things.
@hankheathen
Including individuals using Blender’s Video Sequence Editor? Methinks you might be forgetting how complete a package Blender is sans-compatibility now.
I’m using Blender in a commercial workflow with Game Engine and MOV files with alpha channel worked perfectly with the VideoTexture call, so from now I connot upgrade anymore.. that’s a pity.
It’s not a matter of liking or not liking a format, personal opinions have little importance, commercially the .mov files are the most used and provide excellent keying, which is sooo important in broadcasting, so missing them is a huge drawback in many pro works.
Interesting all that head bashing and I am right comments here.
The good thing about quicktime is the support for alpha channel and the realtime play. But I dont really use quicktime, since I use png sequence with alpha channel for animation. CMIIW
I’m sure you all have heard me say this before, but I will say it again.
I live and work in Hollywood.
This is not a bright idea.
I don’t personally like Apple that much, but I use .mov files all the time.
That is the standard here.
Ditto for .psd files.
Anything that interferes with a smooth workflow here will be viewed again as simply amateur hour by Blender. This isn’t what we need for Blender’s image! We’re trying to promote it, right?
This kind of no discussion, arbitrary decision is not smart.
If Blender 2.57 had it, why can’t 2.58?
What changed right now to force this removal?
Why couldn’t an alternative work-around be figured out before this decision was made?
Usability IS important and Quicktime + PSD is still needed. There are many creative people here and I am sure a solution can be found. It would be nice if this was brought to the community earlier instead of a unilateral abrupt decision on something that touches so many users.
I agree completely with terrachild. Though I’d rather use the AVI container and the different flavors of MP4 codecs, the quicktime mov format is very much an industrial standard. The Canon DSLR I use shoots into QT H264 movs. I like the fact that I can convert the movs from an Archived version of Blender on a Windows system that I don’t have administration rights to.
On the other hand, I have read the interview with Nathan Letwory and the problems he faced integrating Quicktime support and he has described some valid difficulties like a stable 64bit support and GPL issues.
We cannot completely ignore Quicktime, so meanwhile for me, I’ll just Xmedia recode to convert my Quicktime files for use in Blender.
I didn’t realize Gottfried Hoffman already mentioned this,
“Quicktime support in Windows is still available – it’s just handled by FFMPEG now and now longer by native Quicktime. Which means that codecs like Quicktime Animation are now longer available but you can still use the Quicktime container for H.264 and the likes.”
If that’s the case, then this is a non issue for me.
I don’t use quick time anymore ,so get rid of it.
Why is quicktime use not compatible with the GPL?
Thanks Benjy for pointing to the GPL-issue in the intro.
For anyone who wants to know wether it is compatible with the GPL, check http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/quicktime.html – even simple things like a distribution report are not possible for Blender.
The problem with the incompatibility is the following: Blender infringed on Apple’s c*pyright for years which had to be stopped asap.
At the moment I think future development should try to help out getting things back piece-by-piece. The .mov container is still available und you can load most QT files into 2.58 without problems. Allowing more options in FFMPEG and trying to get better compatibility should be the next step.
Just wondering if this is a really serious issue at all. Rendering direct to QT isn’t something that is normally done via Maya or other mainstream studio staples. QT frame compiling and/or re-compressing is normally done as a separate process anyway. I can appreciate that it makes the video-editing side of Blender less self-contained, but it can be worked around since there are always applications optimised for file delivery formats, where a lot of control is preferable. QT is a very widespread sharing format, particularly between corporate clients and agencies, so in normal business ignoring or shunning it isn’t really a viable option.
I’m using Blender as a professional and teach it in a french university. Both in my work and my class I use Photoshop with Blender witch worked perfectly. I used to paint my textures in Photoshop with layers, filter, smart layer, etc. and just reloaded it in Blender every 5 minutes to preview it in 3d model. Now it’s really a pain and a waste of time to have to save it as jpeg or png. I really don’t care about quicktime, but please, bring PSD compatibility back :(
I’m sad about dropping out QT, because most of the CANON SLR cameras make QT in their movie mode.
So does this effect the Mac version of blender or just Windows version?
Well is done,now what?
if there is format to include alpha channel like .mov?
please tell me, my Aftereffects workflow is broken(and no don´t tell me that images sequences are an option, in a real workflow (where time accounts) life footage and CGI are most practical in a single lossless or compressed container with alpha channel.
just look at any Aftereffects tutorial site for instance).
and if PSD will be dropped, this is serious stuff.
for studios is defacto standard as the one that I work, we use it because it´s useful and way more practical to use multilayed images. than many png or stuff that don´t reflect the special effects layers that PSD offers.
I´m sad…
From a little googling I also found the psdparse lib: http://telegraphics.com.au/sw/product/psdparse
The README in the source code (http://telegraphics.com.au/svn/psdparse/trunk/) says it’s GPL, could be worth I look.
IIRC gimp also reads PSD, so should definitely be possible
I’ve down countless videos for web and have never touched QuickTime. When I last tested it, the quality was horrible compared with WMV (converted from AVI Raw), it was incredibly slow to load and start playing in Quicktime Player… and lots of people don’t even have Quicktime installed on their Windows PCs since it’s hardly ever used by anyone (from my experience).
So, I’ve always used AVI Raw (or a PNG sequence) from Blender, then converted that using other encoders to the format I need: WMV, MPEG, MP4 etc. Get rid of QuickTime from Blender, especially if it frees up the devs to do useful stuff!