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	<title>Comments on: Testing Different Renders</title>
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		<title>By: zahlenzerkleinerer</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-168354</link>
		<dc:creator>zahlenzerkleinerer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-168354</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Blender Version 2.45&lt;/strong&gt;

Schon einige Tage online doch kam ich in den letzten Tage wenig dazu was in Blender zu machen, darum auch nur selten auf der Seite von Blender  Die Version 2.45 hat dieses mal auch keine neuen Funktionen zu bieten, es dient rein der Stabilität der Ser...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Blender Version 2.45</strong></p>
<p>Schon einige Tage online doch kam ich in den letzten Tage wenig dazu was in Blender zu machen, darum auch nur selten auf der Seite von Blender  Die Version 2.45 hat dieses mal auch keine neuen Funktionen zu bieten, es dient rein der Stabilität der Ser&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ysvry</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-163887</link>
		<dc:creator>ysvry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-163887</guid>
		<description>I also wondered why  Kerkythea isnt in the test? Couldnt find it? try google www.google .com :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also wondered why  Kerkythea isnt in the test? Couldnt find it? try google <a href="http://www.google" rel="nofollow">http://www.google</a> .com :P</p>
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		<title>By: Mikkel</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-163403</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-163403</guid>
		<description>@Hannu: I did read the text. And if you want to do such a comparison, you are welcome of course. Your computer, your website, your time, your choice - you are free to do anything you want. All I am saying is just that I don&#039;t think such a comparison makes much sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Hannu: I did read the text. And if you want to do such a comparison, you are welcome of course. Your computer, your website, your time, your choice &#8211; you are free to do anything you want. All I am saying is just that I don&#039;t think such a comparison makes much sense.</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-163093</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-163093</guid>
		<description>Musk -- I was under the impression that he was presenting himself as a professional. Perhaps I misread something. If so then I&#039;m sorry about that Hannu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Musk &#8212; I was under the impression that he was presenting himself as a professional. Perhaps I misread something. If so then I&#039;m sorry about that Hannu.</p>
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		<title>By: Nobby</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-163010</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-163010</guid>
		<description>Not much use with AA turned off and some unknown level of Jpeg compression on the images. In summary: a good idea redundantly executed. Now the weather...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not much use with AA turned off and some unknown level of Jpeg compression on the images. In summary: a good idea redundantly executed. Now the weather&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hannu "Luppa" Kuisti</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-162664</link>
		<dc:creator>Hannu "Luppa" Kuisti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-162664</guid>
		<description>A lot of replies, I didn&#039;t guess the page would be actually making it&#039;s way to here...
I originally started the thread in blenderartists.org forums and I put the link
to the page there. I requested the comments there (now I see them here :)

I have some problems with this project, because at the moment (and at the
moment of making the renders) I have a 56K modem connection to the Internet
and sooo much to download :) I&#039;ll probably get the latest Indigo when the
maker starts calling it stable. It&#039;s developing so fast that I don&#039;t get every version.

Mikkel: I know the renderers are designed to be used with different setups. Here,
I am testing which renderer works best with this setup. This is a fairly basic
setup with one sunlight, and just a few UV-mapped objects. A fairly basic for
archi-viz. As I have written to the page, that I was mostly interested in indirect light bounces. You probably didn&#039;t read the text?

daxian: Use Google :) for real: I&#039;ll look into them.

I will also have to get the right version of Java, if it doesn&#039;t take hours to
download on my 56K :) If I even find the right version on the Java website,
which looks like someone vomited on my screen.

noen: The render are different because that&#039;s how the renderers made them.
As I pointed out, I didn&#039;t even do any post processing. I had to make everything
quick &amp; dirty because I have to make some actual work on my machine...
about the AA, I will have to put it on to my next tests and see how they will
work. 

And as for the tweaking, this is why I actually posted the original page! I asked
for advice how to better the renderings, and now I have quite a lot. Still,
some questions unanswered.

Another thing here is the amount of documentation on there open source/free/GPL
renderers: there&#039;s not a lot. There&#039;s a lot of testing that one has to make
to really understand how the renderers work. So to everyone who thinks the images
were crap, i dare you to make better ones! I would (really) like to see different
pages comparing renderers with differents kinds of setups listed out with the renderings. 

The more professional looking work I save to my clients :)

But hey!  Keep the comments on coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of replies, I didn&#039;t guess the page would be actually making it&#039;s way to here&#8230;<br />
I originally started the thread in blenderartists.org forums and I put the link<br />
to the page there. I requested the comments there (now I see them here :)</p>
<p>I have some problems with this project, because at the moment (and at the<br />
moment of making the renders) I have a 56K modem connection to the Internet<br />
and sooo much to download :) I&#039;ll probably get the latest Indigo when the<br />
maker starts calling it stable. It&#039;s developing so fast that I don&#039;t get every version.</p>
<p>Mikkel: I know the renderers are designed to be used with different setups. Here,<br />
I am testing which renderer works best with this setup. This is a fairly basic<br />
setup with one sunlight, and just a few UV-mapped objects. A fairly basic for<br />
archi-viz. As I have written to the page, that I was mostly interested in indirect light bounces. You probably didn&#039;t read the text?</p>
<p>daxian: Use Google :) for real: I&#039;ll look into them.</p>
<p>I will also have to get the right version of Java, if it doesn&#039;t take hours to<br />
download on my 56K :) If I even find the right version on the Java website,<br />
which looks like someone vomited on my screen.</p>
<p>noen: The render are different because that&#039;s how the renderers made them.<br />
As I pointed out, I didn&#039;t even do any post processing. I had to make everything<br />
quick &amp; dirty because I have to make some actual work on my machine&#8230;<br />
about the AA, I will have to put it on to my next tests and see how they will<br />
work. </p>
<p>And as for the tweaking, this is why I actually posted the original page! I asked<br />
for advice how to better the renderings, and now I have quite a lot. Still,<br />
some questions unanswered.</p>
<p>Another thing here is the amount of documentation on there open source/free/GPL<br />
renderers: there&#039;s not a lot. There&#039;s a lot of testing that one has to make<br />
to really understand how the renderers work. So to everyone who thinks the images<br />
were crap, i dare you to make better ones! I would (really) like to see different<br />
pages comparing renderers with differents kinds of setups listed out with the renderings. </p>
<p>The more professional looking work I save to my clients :)</p>
<p>But hey!  Keep the comments on coming.</p>
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		<title>By: Yellow</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-162553</link>
		<dc:creator>Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-162553</guid>
		<description>No doubt we&#039;ve all asked the same question, I certainly have for ArchiViz and as Hannu, tried all the renderers that are on offer. BTW using Sunflow 0.7.2 is far from upto date, should be building from SVN, there are many improvements in the SVN, Chris hasn&#039;t made a release for a loooooooong time.

But the big problem is all renderers handle the materials, textures and lights in blender differently. Not only that but because the renderers don&#039;t have a mature feature set, you end up not being able to use the same renderer for stills and animations and get photorealistic results. So you end up getting two different appearance between the stills done with say Sunflow or Indigo and animations done with BI.

Then how many of the renderers intergrate in any way with blender&#039;s passes? Only one BI. How many of the renderers have it on their roadmap to do passes, we can have motion blur and other wizz bang stuff to prove a renderer coders skills and standing in the community but what about the basics? When will a renderer coder look at a bit more closer intergration with blender other than coding a python script to create an XML file, which then needs hand tweaking to get results. At least they&#039;re doing something i hear you shout.

But this is Open Source and the reasons why people start coding projects is for their own needs and understandably so, but it would be soooo good if they looked at a bigger picture as well, look at what blender internal is missing like GI, good fake GI and get those in place first along with passes then blenderers can mix passes and get results instead of waiting (yes we&#039;re not all coders and can&#039;t damn well do it ourselves) for one particular renderer to get the features needed or have us all bouncing from one incomplete renderer to another trying to get results. It&#039;s simply far easier to just go proprietary with Vray or Brazil, it ain&#039;t mega bucks and results come easier with time because the features are there to get the results.

Hopefully the render api GSOC project will bring about change and it&#039;s for me the most exciting thing that&#039;s happening to blender for sometime. Instead of talk of coding BI to do GI etc, the greatest flexibility will be the ability to render passes in different renderers based on their strengths and composite to get the results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No doubt we&#039;ve all asked the same question, I certainly have for ArchiViz and as Hannu, tried all the renderers that are on offer. BTW using Sunflow 0.7.2 is far from upto date, should be building from SVN, there are many improvements in the SVN, Chris hasn&#039;t made a release for a loooooooong time.</p>
<p>But the big problem is all renderers handle the materials, textures and lights in blender differently. Not only that but because the renderers don&#039;t have a mature feature set, you end up not being able to use the same renderer for stills and animations and get photorealistic results. So you end up getting two different appearance between the stills done with say Sunflow or Indigo and animations done with BI.</p>
<p>Then how many of the renderers intergrate in any way with blender&#039;s passes? Only one BI. How many of the renderers have it on their roadmap to do passes, we can have motion blur and other wizz bang stuff to prove a renderer coders skills and standing in the community but what about the basics? When will a renderer coder look at a bit more closer intergration with blender other than coding a python script to create an XML file, which then needs hand tweaking to get results. At least they&#039;re doing something i hear you shout.</p>
<p>But this is Open Source and the reasons why people start coding projects is for their own needs and understandably so, but it would be soooo good if they looked at a bigger picture as well, look at what blender internal is missing like GI, good fake GI and get those in place first along with passes then blenderers can mix passes and get results instead of waiting (yes we&#039;re not all coders and can&#039;t damn well do it ourselves) for one particular renderer to get the features needed or have us all bouncing from one incomplete renderer to another trying to get results. It&#039;s simply far easier to just go proprietary with Vray or Brazil, it ain&#039;t mega bucks and results come easier with time because the features are there to get the results.</p>
<p>Hopefully the render api GSOC project will bring about change and it&#039;s for me the most exciting thing that&#039;s happening to blender for sometime. Instead of talk of coding BI to do GI etc, the greatest flexibility will be the ability to render passes in different renderers based on their strengths and composite to get the results.</p>
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		<title>By: Dion Moult</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-162489</link>
		<dc:creator>Dion Moult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-162489</guid>
		<description>For me all that proves is that the Internal Blender Renderer works fine for me ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me all that proves is that the Internal Blender Renderer works fine for me ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Igor</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-162411</link>
		<dc:creator>Igor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-162411</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing this tests and settings, very useful info! 
Hey, but where is discussion forum you talking about in your article?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing this tests and settings, very useful info!<br />
Hey, but where is discussion forum you talking about in your article?</p>
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		<title>By: musk</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/testing-different-renders/comment-page-1/#comment-162218</link>
		<dc:creator>musk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/09/24/testing-different-renders/#comment-162218</guid>
		<description>He never claimed them to be professional. He just wanted to compare rendertimes for himself and posted about it. 
But I agree that the result is not really comparable. I think to make it comparable you would have to have a reference image which you should try to get to. Record the time to tweak the scene and add it to the actual render time giving you the total time. Now that would be comparable. 
Another thing I didn&#039;t catch is which version of Java did he actually use and on which Platform since this might greatly influences the performance of JAVA since the JVMs are different on different platforms. Another note on the side: Server setting is default for Java 1.6 and up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He never claimed them to be professional. He just wanted to compare rendertimes for himself and posted about it.<br />
But I agree that the result is not really comparable. I think to make it comparable you would have to have a reference image which you should try to get to. Record the time to tweak the scene and add it to the actual render time giving you the total time. Now that would be comparable.<br />
Another thing I didn&#039;t catch is which version of Java did he actually use and on which Platform since this might greatly influences the performance of JAVA since the JVMs are different on different platforms. Another note on the side: Server setting is default for Java 1.6 and up.</p>
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