New Particle System
Peach is delivering new Blender functionality almost every week, it seems! There’s information on the new particle system on blender.org.
- Blender’s particle system has been fully rewritten by Janne Karhu, adding dozens of new and improved features.
- The internal renderer has been extended to render hair strands more memory efficient and faster, to make rendering of large amounts of fur and grass possible.
- Two new options […] result in shading that acts as if the original surface was shaded without hair, which should make lighting fur more like lighting an object without fur.
The code is already in SVN, so the first testbuilds using this functionality are probably already available from graphicall.org.Check out the full announcement for all the details.
This is great!
I’ve been experimenting with the new particle system for a while now, and it works real well!
Thanks, guys!
WOW!!!
At last Blender have a robust particle sistem, I think it could compete with Particle Flow and Thinking Particles!!!
Thank you Janne and all the developers of Blender, Blender will be to 3D as Linux to SO.
……Blender is the Future….
I’m wondering….when will 2.50 be released? Looks like they are not sticking to their original roadmap anymore http://www.blendernation.com/2007/03/31/244-250-development-roadmap/ … the page on blender.org is gone.
And no coverage on the new GUI yet. :(
Great,
Looks promising only at moment of writing, the build isn’t availible at Graphicall.
Barbie, I would not cry if the GUI stayed the same. You make it sound like it is all bad or something :)
Thanks Blender!
Blender’s GUI is fine as is! Good job guys!
I would be interested to see the rest of the settings for the strand renderer/particle system for the example file. My tests do not come out that nice, I must be missing something.
This is great, does anybody know when blender 2.5 is going to be released?
Blender is the future.
But workflow = GUI.
The GUI could be way better, no point in having new features if the GUI slows you down IMHO.
DreadKnight,
Man I sure am glad you are not in charge of Blender development. According to your logic we would have no particle rewrite but an easier GUI for noobs.
Ask Janne what he was paid to do the rewrite. If the answer is nothing, then who are you or anybody to dictate to him that he should work on the GUI?
I have 0 issues with the blender GUI. I actually love how it works.
As i understood it the plan was not to change the GUI per-se, but the whole “event system recode” stuff behind it. Sure – there will be quite some some improvements coming out of this, but I think the basic handling and look&feel (most of the G in “GUI” :)) will not change a lot.
Some things I know (or at least that’s how i understand it) will be changed in the “event system recode”
* Functions (e.g. extrude, move, unwrap) are planned to not be assigned to keys (which is making some stuff quite hard to do right now – like say user-defined hotkeys) but the other way around. i.e. Making the internal structure function-centric, not keyboard-centric
* improvements for drag-n-drop like functionality
* lot’s more stuff that one probably could find combing trough the developer mailinglist http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers – http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&q=event+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flists.blender.org%2Fpipermail%2Fbf-committers%2F&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=
Or see an “UNOFFICIAL” summary of the recode here: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/Current_Projects/Event_Refactor_Unofficial
But let’s get back ontopic: love the new particle system :)
Werner
For those who are REALLY into Blender the GUI is fine! It does not slow down. On the contrary it SPEEDS UP workflow!
After all, Blender is ‘born’ from creativity rather than from purely commercial motive.
A big thanks to Janne Karhu, and anyone else involved in particle development.
Anyone critical of Blender’s UI: feel free to download the source code and change it yourself!
I’m not defending the current interface, only re-stating its ability to be changed by anyone. That’s why its open-source.
Thanks Höhrer.
This is awesome stuff! Thanks Janne Karhu :)
Can’t wait for it to make the official release.
This new system will be a huge help with the short film I’m involved in! Thanks so much Blender development geeks!
This is so exciting! Thanks Janne Karhu, for the work. I am looking forward to learning how to use it. By the way I like the GUI.
This is only a test build ,so there some issues in animating hair and 32 bit memory system.
Thanks Janne and Brecht I really enjoying using the new particles.
Barbie,
A small comment was made in the sunday meeting notes here (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda/December_2nd_2007) a week or so ago. I’m looking forward to this as well.
I also like to (Million) Thanks to Jahka and Brecht and all Blender Developers for this Amazing New Features added in Blender!
And Hey!…i just tryed Theeth´s Harmonic Sceleton and i must say WOW!!!so easy to make a Armature!!Wow
Thanks again!!
DO NOT post links to graphicall if they haven’t put forth the effort to make builds for EVERY system.
Hip Hip Hurray!
cool, thx for the new features.
tsgfilmwerks: see this is not how it works, if nobody has build for your platform it only means that YOU should build and share to others, you are in no position to demand anything
“* Functions (e.g. extrude, move, unwrap) are planned to not be assigned to keys ” ????
i’m using those all the time and find it much quicker then going to a menu etc. so plz keep those functions under keys. the UI is good as it is maybe a special edition for the memory challenged among us is a betterway, let them have large colorfull icons for all functions but in theire own branch lets keep blender as fast working as possible. just my 2 cnts.
Right ON ZanQdo!!!!!!
What a bunch of ingrates some of you are!!!
Thanks to all devs and all test build builders for all of your generous hard work!!!
PMM
I for one am quite cheerful for the new functionality. Also, I did go through the mailing list a few days ago, just to get an idea of where things are. Blender releases are on hold while Peach is on the go. Blender development is going very hard in order to meet the needs of Peach. The new Particle system is an excellent example of this. The other item that really *SERIOUSLY* impressed me was Theeths automatic armature creator. Just create a model, run this (give a set of parameters in the GUI) and it will build an armature for you. Its based on a lot of stuff, some of which were papers submitted at Siggraph-2007! Talk about bleeding edge! One thing I was wondering: the new particle system isn’t strictly based on CFD, is it?
Also, Is anyone working on clouds? Thanks again to the developers!
Bob
tsgfilmwerks,
ZanQdo is right. it’s helpful to the rest of us to have the links, and if something is missing, you could take it upon yourself to fix it, or just hang tight like the rest of us! :-D
Ysvry,
well, if I understand what I saw in that BMesh preview several weeks back, the whole modeling process would change a good bit. extrude would be changed and would actually do several things, depending on which keys you use with it. I’ve used similar systems, and they’re actually quicker to model with.
Blender Particles looks pretty nice! the new shading algorithms make me drool! that will make fur actually bearable to work with! Can’t wait for 2.5!
ysvry:
Well, as it is, Blender sees that you press E, and it extrudes. Now, it think if Extruding as an action, and E just happens to be the button you press to activate it.
Same effect, different method.
ccherrett:
And who are you to forbid someone from criticizing your beloved piece of software ?
One of my friend tried Blender and Sketchup, guess which one he choosed to invest time in (same apply for colleague at work to create viz) ? The ones you disdainfully see as “Noob” are “new users” which could increase user base.
mike:
Rewriting the source to have the GUI suits your taste or shut up is a joke, isn’t it ? What would the average end-user usually do, change the code or install another package ?
Hmmm… Wow!
I stop using Blender for a month or two, come back, and all of a sudden there’s this giant honking load of features I have to relearn!?! Sheesh guys, if you don’t slow down the changes, we’re gonna have to relearn Blender every time a new release comes out :P
But this is awesome – The new particles system is insane – it’s the 3D experimenters field day :D
Well. Can’t wait for 2.50… Pity it’s probably gonna wait till after Peach – I don’t wanna wait that long!
I think only a few beginners and are the ones wanting a total GUI redo. The rest of us who are anticipating the event refactor are either people who like Blender’s GUI as it is, but wish that there would be no more ‘hidden’ functions, or those who have a desire to have Blender work almost identically to their preferred high-end commercial package (if you’re used to using Max/Maya/XSI at work, you might be able to work faster in Blender if you could remap the keys to match Max/Maya/XSI).
Great!Oh, I like Blender so much!
AWESOME! DEFINITELY useful for the forest scene I need for my animation. I must always update my graphicall version :)
As for the GUI – I love Blender’s current GUI. If you want to make it prettier, fine. If you want to CHANGE the whole thing to match other 3D programs…that’s just PLAIN NOT GOOD. If you want to make major edits, then at least offer a “Blender-veteran” skin or something.
ATTN: GUI EXCITEES
The developers are not actually idiots, just let them do their thing. You’ve never had any reason to be unhappy with what they’ve done before, so why freak out as soon as change is even mentioned, now? And so far as I’ve seen, barely any of you have comprehended in the slightest what the GUI job actually entails, so why don’t you all take a deep breath and.
a. actually work to find out
b. stop panicking
c. stop assuming the developers are stupid
kthx, because I’m fed up to the teeth with the baseless spaz-griping.
Hint, the new GUI will look like Mozilla Fox window browser,modeler can detach the edit
tool and float it around and window will tabs instead of splitting ,this set for the 2.60 and up blender version.
freaking awesome!!!
Where in the [rahhh]do I find this build.
Yea yeah, Graphicall, but there are a x amount of builds there, and even when filtering on platform I can’t see what to choose.
‘Bout the discussion on the GUI:
I agree, Blender can have a better GUI, but I have nothing against it either.
Making a Old-GUI version and a new-GUI version (or enabling an option for it) should help to get Blender more massive.
Also, navigation doesn’t do what I want it to do, so perhaps tweaking that can help too.
@Thomas
[url=http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=558]windows build[/url]
[url=http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=433]linux build[/url]
There are no Mac OSX build yet…
@Thomas
http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=558 – windows
http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=558 – linux
There are no Mac OSX build yet…
sorry for double posting, but i thought that bb code works in blendernation….
Barbie, nice job on hijacking this post with your GUI concerns. Next time stick to the topic.
GUI is perfect, everyone who disagrees: go and buy yourself another 3D package but s.u.
to topic: yes, great thing, can’t wait for the next (official) releases!
Thank you ,Very good ,its wonderful and the second thank for Blender
Any recent BF build in GraphicAll should work
Excellent work!!
I think the GUI is excellent, it really speeds up the workflow, I love the hotkeys features it’s better than clicking anywhere, trying to find where a button is distract me, when I started in the 3D world I began with blender and the GUI was so intuitive for me in a couple of days I was modeling my ginger man!!!
Just mi opinion
Here is a sample blend for anyone who would like to play with it:
http://www.tsiwebdesign.com/testing/grass.blend
Here is a render: (12 seconds on my quad)
http://www.tsiwebdesign.com/testing/grass3.png
Absolutely fantastic. End of story.
P.S. Thank you for all your hard work coders! Without Blender, I’d have
to take a loan for Maya or 3DS Max.
Very cool, but there seems to be a strange problem with interruptions in the strands. Or ist that the thing with the clipping?
See these renderings.
http://twoday.tuwien.ac.at/pub/files/new-particles-thin
http://twoday.tuwien.ac.at/pub/files/new-particles-thick
— comment removed —
Oh, and here is the .blend file:
http://twoday.tuwien.ac.at/pub/files/new-particles
For some reason it’s > 1 MB! (maybe because of all those combed hairs?)
@blackboe: no personal attacks here. I’ve removed your comment.
@everyone: please stay on topic.
Bart, you leave me wondering what was said and who it was said to :)
Bart: It was not a personal attack, it was an observation–albeit an extremely acidic one. It’s the mentality I’m annoyed with, not the person.
@ccherrett: Same here :P
Also, that image above… I didn’t grab the blend, but how many particle strands was that? On a quad, 12 seconds still seems a little high for that image… Or maybe that’s just me… Unless there’s something I’m missing…
@panzi: lol, if I had hair like that, I’d rather be bald.
@Bart: Sorry to join in the convo, but…
Guys, listen…Blender’s GUI is what makes Blender Blender. For all I care, you could swap the entire backend with a reverse-engineered copy of Maya, but as long as you keep the GUI, and all it’s features, I couldn’t care less. I don’t open Blender because it has a Phong specular shader, or because I can get Quad OSA – in fact, for the most part, many professional 3D packages have similar features and I can achieve the same-looking end result using the different packages. But I open Blender, because I like the simple and unique GUI and workflow.
If you don’t like the GUI, well tough – go use another 3D Package. Just as in the marketplace, a product will appeal to different audiences, and if a particular audience member doesn’t like it and doesn’t know how to adapt it, he/she will use a different product. Same goes for Blender. It’s GUI is one of it’s key points. Think it’s difficult to use? Go find a different 3D Product then.
Obviously someone, somewhere, liked the idea of Blender’s GUI enough to code it. Obviously enough people then liked it to use it. And, like all products, there are those who will complain.
Well, as I said, if you don’t like it but don’t know enough to adapt it, go find a different product. I’m sure the Blender community won’t miss you too much.
rpgsimmaster:
137 particles each with 100 children
I thought 12 seconds was awesome. The old particles took much longer than that. it is now possible to animate fully furred creatures in decent times.
@Mike – don’t be an ass. A lot of the people on here are just artists, not coders. Don’t expect them to be able to hack C code if they’ve never programmed before.
It is the DEVELOPERS’ responsibility to create a better work experience for the USERS, not the other way around.
Wow, I don’t use Blender not nearly enough but Peach is getting me excited! Eerily excited with the hard nipples and all…
I can’t wait to see what king of loving Apricot brings with it’s game development.
Karg: Mike is a huge part of the Blender Team. HDRI lighting fixes, glossy reflections as well as a great artist. Mike is doing his part in the Blender community. Possibly it is time you move on? Go pay for Max or Maya. Go away and have a nice day :)
Karg: oh and all the Devs are artists that love the art form and in turn work on their passions. So get to work and find a way to help. No one owes you anything!
I have always liked the idea of Blender even if I felt the interface (read GUI) was less than intuitive and I’m sure that it’s an extraordinary application and no doubt better than any that I (a lowly hobbyist) could afford to purchase. I applaud the community of programmers who have poured their time and sweat into this project.
However, that said, I am also a blender noob and find this communities acid edged intolerance of others opinions reminiscent of my first days on the internet… back when a 1200 baud modem was stylin and the big debate was mouse vs keyboard commands. I haven’t heard the level of arrogant dismissiveness this thread displays since I accidentally stumbled onto a university buletin board and committed the unpardonable sin of not knowing EVERYTHING. So, many people here like the GUI… fantastic. Don’t change it. Change is bad.
Now if you Olympian dieties high atop Mt. blender could MAYBE just look at it with the eyes of someone with the earnest desire to learn it (because unlike you we weren’t born with the knowledge) perhaps you might see how the interface does not lend itself to intuitive exploration.
Know why I use Photoshop instead of Gimp even though it was prohibitively expensive? Because I “got it” right out of the box. It made sense. Go ahead and flame me for pointing out the obvious and say something pithy like “If you don’t like it you can buy something else and STFU”, I don’t really care. If an observation about the GUI can make everyone on this thread become unhinged then all you have for me is more sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Hey Eric, stick around awhile and you will start to hate hearing all the GUI sucks comments. This post was hijacked by another complaining fest. You can mock all you like but the point was to talk about a great new feature. But you seem to have missed that.
ccherret: I’m not sure how much he missed it, seeing as the thread was completely derailed by the time he got here, “arrogant dismissiveness” is an excellent phrase to describe the attitude of a large portion of this community, though.
I second ccherrett’s comment! If you spend enough time on Blender forums, you get awfully tired of hearing “the Blender GUI sucks”. More often than not people hijack other threads to say it, as those of us who’ve been around a while ignore posts on that subject!
Incidentally, Blender is the first and only 3D package I’ve ever used, and I picked up the GUI. Yes, it took me a little time, but there’s plenty of tutorials out there to help you along (same with GIMP, actually…I haven’t opened Photoshop in over a year).
Eric, suppose you went to a Photoshop site and everyone was complaining that the interface wasn’t the same as GIMP…how would you feel that people are demanding that an interface you’re comfortable with be completely changed? Now, imagine that you saw this on EVERY SITE DEVOTED TO THE PROGRAM! Again to back up ccherrett, stick around and you’ll see this. Better yet, start going through other forums, or even other things like this in the Blender news, and you’ll find that this issue has been talked to death.
The bottom line is if someone wants to bitch about the GUI, there’s plenty of forums out there (like BA) where they can make a post devoted to it. This thread was meant to be about the new particle system, but very little discussion has been had on that subject.
Oh, and if you want to play the “veteran” game, my first modem was a 300 baud acoustic coupler…
To all of you who are kneejerking the daylights out of anyone making a critical comment about the GUI, face facts: The GUI is the number one obstacle to Blender being adopted on a widespread basis. You may hate that that’s the case, and think that’s a stupid reason to not adopt a software package, but beating up those who don’t like the GUI isn’t going to change that fact. I didn’t hear anyone complaining about the *price* of Blender, nor the *capability* of Blender … did you? So why attack those unhappy with the GUI for simply stating they’re not in love with the GUI? I understand your viewpoint, if you believe the number one goal is to have the best 3D package in the world regardless of how many – or few – people “out there” use it. However, if the goal is to have the package widely adopted, the developers are going to have to make changes based on the “Voice of the Customer,” whether you think that’s stupid or not.
This to me is similar to Linux fans who go rabid the second someone complains that it’s too technical, then go on to explain that people should be ecstatic that it’s free. The price isn’t what people are complaining about, is it! You can’t have it both ways: If you want Linux to kill Windows, it has to be a better “whatever-the-masses-are-looking-for-from-an-OS,” which I can tell you is NOT the ability to control every point of minutia from memory using a command line. Sorry: if that’s what *you* want, then Linux is king, but the vast majority of users don’t want that — they want something easy to use. Something that doesn’t get in their way of quickly doing what they want to do.
It took me a while to get used to Blender, and now I love it. But my goal is to use a robust 3D software package that’s free. I can’t afford to spend $3000 on a commercial solution right now, but does that require me to adore everything about Blender? Heck, I don’t adore everything there is about the software I go out of my way to *pay* for, so why would that be any different just because something costs me nothing?
And on top of this, don’t ever forget: it’s easy to get married to what you’re used to just because you’re used to it. I know a lot of WordPerfect 4 and 5 users whose heads exploded when first Word for Windows and then WordPerfect 6 (for Windows) came out. Simply because *they* had a library of key combinations memorized and could therefore work like lightning in an environment where what they saw on the screen barely approximated the print output didn’t mean that new users would share the warm-and-fuzzies when presented with alternatives that were more appealing right out of the box.
kev99sl:
Wow that was a long post. I take it you struggle with Linux as well as think Blender has GUI problems.
The point is shut up and stop the complaining about the GUI. You want it, then do it yourself. Possibly that is a hard concept for a Windows guy to understand but in the Linux/Open Source World your opinion does not give you the right to constantly bash and hijack threads. No one asked you to use open source and no one is asking for your hijacking thread routine.
Enough said.
Bart. Can you close this thing?
kev99sl: and anyone else who has GUI complaints
I am reposting this so you can tweak it and send it back improved: (make yourself useful and join the community to make it better)
Here is a sample blend for anyone who would like to play with it:
http://www.tsiwebdesign.com/testing/grass.blend
Here is a render: (12 seconds on my quad)
http://www.tsiwebdesign.com/testing/grass3.png
ccherrett,
I’m not sure what I said that deserved such a response from you. (?) Please note that *I* wasn’t complaining about the GUI. If you re-read my post, you’ll see I’m happily using Blender. I’m also not certain how I can possibly be accused of “constantly bash[ing] and hijack[ing] threads” when this was my first post. It seems as though you have a low tolerance for anyone who disagrees with your thoughts about the Blender GUI. Would that be a fair statement? If so, you share much in common with those you attack, who like you, have an equally low tolerance for anyone who disagrees with their thoughts about the Blender GUI.
I have no problems with the GUI so strenuous that I won’t use the software. My only point was, you can’t have it both ways: You can have a nice app with a unique GUI used by a small sampling of enthusiasts, or you can have a nice app that uses more typical conventions that will likely be adopted by many more people. I’m not advocating either, just saying that the GUI is an issue for many new users. Period. That makes you angry, and I’m not sure why.
You made some comment about “You want it, then do it yourself. Possibly that is a hard concept for a Windows guy to understand …” Yep. It is. If I wanted to program, I’d be a programmer. I use Blender because it’s a fantastic app, not because I’m interested in (or have the aptitude for) digging into the code and making changes. Blender makes it possible for me to do many of the things that I need to do with it, and want to learn to do with it. You act like that’s a bad thing, which mystifies me. So in your mind, apparently, the only people worthy of using apps or – I guess – even computers at all, are those willing/able to code. And that’s the attitude that will keep Linux an enthusiast-only platform. Again, if that’s what you want, I guess that’s what you want. But there are many people who want the OS to be as transparent as possible, who want the tool to be just a tool, not another project unto itself.
And, incidentally, I thought it was in the spirit of open source for people to “make themselves useful” in the ways that best suit them. You’re certainly not much of a missionary for the movement, I have to say.
kev99sl:
New Particle System <- thread topic
Do you get it now?
Go start your little novel at Blender Artist.
I would rather not have people who demand software using Linux. I am good with the thankful sort.
ccherrett:
The thread went off-topic within the first five posts, one of which was yours.
10 of your 12 posts so far have been yelling at people for going off topic.
Why not just take your own advice and be part of the solution, not the problem?
kev99sl
I did. Here it is again, Get it?:
Here is a sample blend for anyone who would like to play with it:
http://www.tsiwebdesign.com/testing/grass.blend
Here is a render: (12 seconds on my quad)
http://www.tsiwebdesign.com/testing/grass3.png
Correction:
10 of your 12 posts so far have been yelling at people for going off topic, not sharing your feelings about the Blender GUI, or trying to convince me that your combativeness is the same as staying on topic.
kev99sl:
so how do you like the grass? would you improve it?
@kev99sl, ccherrett: this discussion is now over. Take it somewhere else.
Thanks Bart
I’m just glad that I can give my self-portrait some realistic hair now without mega-intense render times; it’s close to being presentable, except for its baldness.
Great work on the particles! This will really make a difference.
Looks great! Makes me want to make a werewolf… :-D
Yeah, it’s a little funny how no one says “the gui could be better in such and such a way” just that if you don’t like it you should go away. Dammit, I’ve followed blender for years. It’s one of the coolest programs ever and has a user base whose devotion rivals entire platforms (amiga perhas?). That said, I don’t like the gui, and it is the functions of blender that attract me to it, not how those functions are accessed (or in my case, not). Someone kind of made it clear earlier. Blender is used through what most programs call shortcuts, key commands and such. However, most programs provide a long way to the same end, something to click on, or a menu to scroll through. I could imagine after having used blender for a year or so that many of these shortcuts would have become second nature. There are just a lot of people who still think that the “g” in gui means “graphical”. I still feel I shouldn’t have to use a keyboard in this day and age to work in a 3D program, however much more efficient it may be (though if that’s what everyone else wants, then by all means leave it in).
This stuff is amazing! I have been following the development of the new particle system right from the outset, and it’s just been getting better and better!!
Keep up the good work!!
PS: Here are some facts relating to the GUI, make your own conclusions, else I might just become guilty of fuelling the fire! ;)
A lot of people that use blender are hobbyists, or non-committed users, they use blender because they see that it is free and they can’t ‘afford’ high end commercial software.
If they buy commercial software, it means paying extortionate amounts of money for something they do just as a hobby! :P
So far, all the people I have met who have scrapped blender because of the interface are not committed to 3D and merely try the software because it can do cool stuff and it’s free. :)
The target audience of blender has been gradually shifting more and more to professional freelancers and small studios, evident by projects such as peach!
Once you know how it works, blender’s interface is very fast, and is built to save time as much as possible! :)
We are trying to compare blender to high-end 3D applications here!!
If you’re a new user to blender, go and try max or maya (even a crack copy will do ;) and compare on that level rather than seeing blender as low-end just because it’s free, if you don’t like the interface of either, opt for a more low-end solution!!
~epat. :)
that was entertaining- Gui works for me, however, it would be nice if it could support duelview, button on one screen, working area on the other.
Thanks to all the developers out there that help make blender such a powerfull tool!
Wow, I’ve just skimmed through the comments, I didn’t see one for win32 on graphicall, I’ll maybe dust off the SVN build at home and re-attempt to compile it properly! (kind of broke it somehow myself!)
Looks like something worth getting back into the routine of doing giving how many branches are coming together!!!
Awesome work!!!