Model: Hyperspace Shuttle
A great story of Open Content at its best!
Greg Zaal writes:Found a model on Blend Swap by Chris Kuhn and decided it would be fun to texture – it was :)
Since Chris gave away this awesome model, I think it’s only fair if I give away my textured version :)
All modeling and rigging credit goes to Chris – all I did was texture and render it.
Link
collaboration at it’s best!!
Freakin’ awesome!
I feel a little bad for kuhn, since he says in his description on blendswap that he was selling the textured version on turbo squid. He released it CC-BY but you can tell it was a teaser for his paid work. Just seemed disingenuous to a guy who was trying to make a living, but decided to be nice and give back to the community.
After all that’s a “flaw” of blendswap, since they don’t support NC licenses (which I don’t appreciate. To my understanding “Open” means also it’s up to the author to decide). Though I understand your concerns, there’s unfortunately nothing illegal under the given license.
I disagree, it is the highlight of Blendswap, that it uses true open licenses, creating a true open repository.
Anyone who puts things there should be very aware of what open source means and that is free copying, modifying, distribution and even selling.
You give, you take and everyone keep it to itself, he can’t stop others from using it or selling it and nobody can stop him from using or selling his or others stuff either.
I agree with Dan, though the texturing looks gorgeous.
Man this brings tears to my eyes . Awesome model awesome texture work and congrats to both ,
Chris Kuhn and
Greg Zaal .
OMG!!! … phewww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I think Dan raises a good point.
While legal, i think it is a bit … clumsy. I fear Chris Kuhn would prefer it hadn’t happened…
Cheap is more appropriate wording. All they have to do now to get the full model(for free) is drop by blendswap and skip turbosquid altogether. :(
word ” cheap ” indeed does glow golden , in compare to all those products and money made with ” not own tools ” . I do make honest money in Turbo squid by using blender . I think that adds on to the power of blender in professional level , now that is priceless .
One more point , I like to make , anyone who spends, a good deal of time to work on a model and do produce fine results , should earn respect from all of us .
How I wish my ships get that attention :)
sendercorp
14 May ’12 8:11 am
by Chris Kuhn
Reply
I did the model for this, and I gotta
say… Beautiful, man. I went for a slightly different look with my
textures:
(http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/shuttle-recon-blend/670984), but we
were thinking along the same lines. I love what you did. Reminds me
of Serenity / Firefly… Thanks for the credit, but you did at least as
much work as I did.
-Chris- http://blendernerd.com/download-hyperspace-shuttle/
This brings up a very interesting dilemma, I have to say when I saw Greg’s version of Chris’s model I was amazed, heck when I saw Chris’s original model I was amazed too. It wasn’t until after I realized Chris was selling a textured copy that I also felt like we may have wronged him. We are currently discussing this at Blend Swap to try and figure out…. something.
The 2 textured models are not the same are they? I mean the model are the same but the textures must be different. If so I see no problem. We are talking about 2 different works here. The one Chris was selling have one texture on it and people are free to buy that or they can get the free but differrently textured version from Greg. Unfortunately Chris may be loosing sale but you can’t blame Greg for that I think.
My two cents
Although this submission is not a violation in the strict application of the rules which clearly states “If you do upload a modification of another person’s blend, make sure the author released the original files under CC-Zero, CC-BY or CC-BY-SA, you shall give credit, and you shall respect their licensing to the letter.” I think it is a “violation” of the spirit of the rule. Adding textures is not much of a modification in my opinion.
The original author was clear about wanting to sell a textured model on turbo squid, so taking his model and ruining that for him was not really playing fair.
The spirit of Blendswap was to make a repository of blends for people to share but it is impossible for to write rules to cover every situation like this as an example.
On the other hand the original author did take a chance by swaping the un-textured model knowing that something like this could happen. However it is up to the users on Blendswap to play fair and not just by the letter of the rules but also by the spirit of the rules.
Personally I could never take someones model and submit it as a “modified” model by just texturing it unless I had contacted the author and asked for his permission.
I think Chris has been very graceful in his comment concerning the re-use of his work and kudos to him!
Hans B Erickson
I think Greg should apologize to the entire community by posting an in depth, step by step tutorial about the entire texturing procedure he used to get this end result.
Stop trolling for a texturing tutorial.
If he’s going to troll at least it’s funny.
Texture the Shipyard V.7 and all will be forgiven…
I went to look at the model on Turbosquid. I officially like both! Now all we need is someone to animate them fighting each other!
Folks: I think this is open source at it’s finest!
If I were looking to do *anything* serious with this model, I would grab both the free and paid versions in an absolute instant. I think the links here give tribute and traffic to the one for sale, which is a model that tends to work in may other areas of the digital world.
Further, the efforts of both artists represent the work they are capable of, and by itself that is some of the best personal advertising that one can have.
If anyone thinks that the Turbosquid price of $10 a deterrent to anyone wanting to actually use the textured model, to me that seems silly.
Any press, is good press! So I think Greg has done Chris a favor by both creating some stir about the license models, and getting folks to go take a look at the final paid version that is for sale.
I think it is all good here… and I also think both artists have gone into this with their eyes wide open as to the possible outcomes. No harm done at all, it’s all working exactly as it is supposed to and is intended.
nicely put!
Agreed! Nicely put. I think you nailed it Ken. While Greg’s version looks totally awesome, it is an obviously illustrated style. In my opinion Chris’s textures look much more versatile and easier to modify, and by extension, more desirable in many cases… therefore as said, ‘any press is good press’, and the whole thing is working just as it should. Very nice work by both.
Come one guys that is the spirit of open content. People are supposed to download and play around with the files and than share. I uploaded a model that I have seen others use, and some have emailed me to show me what the did with it and I love it. I frankly disappointed by the fact that more people don’t do this.
Download remix and share. Open content isn’t free as in free beer its free as in freedom. If you see a nice highpoly model of a gun make a low poly version and bake some normals and textures. You see an untextured model texture it and share. Maybe you spot a nice character that is not rigged than give it a rig.
People who merely go to blend swap and just download but don’t share either original or modified models are the ones who should be looked down upon not guys like Greg.
Good work both of you.
I am starting to believe some here don’t understand what open source or open culture really means.
It means when you post something under a CC-by-SA or CC0 which are true open licenses and not traps like CC-by-NC, people can use it, modify it, distribute it and even sell it, if you are not comfortable with it do not post anything under those licenses.
I don’t understand what those people that keep complaining think open source means.
Good model, good textures, even though I am not using it for anything, I am happy for both, one created a model the other came in and did exactly what it was supposed to do and that is to improve upon the work of others.
I hope somebody else comes in and create a derivative and post it there too, and unlike normal copyright one can give credit where credit is due. Under standard copyright no one should ever give credit to another person because the punishment for using any part of somebody else work is severe to say the least, even if you are not found guilty of anything you still will incur in the cost of litigation if the other side goes after you for whatever reason, this is no way to create anything and incentivize the creation of culture or anything useful really.
Damn. Great model and Texture alike.
Well , back to the render by Greg Zaal , It is ,very ,nicely done . It makes me want to say ” It is always sunny above the clouds ” also it does make me think of that painting from Georgia Okeeffe title , above the clouds .
A link to what open means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_content
It means Greg Zaal, did absolutely nothing wrong, he found a model there under a copyleft license(only CC Attribution, CC-by-SA and CC0 qualify) and improved it, Chris Kuhn obviously understand what he did or he would be mad about it, which apparently he is not, and that is the whole point of having an open space to begin with, so others come in to learn or reuse without having to ask for permission or be forced to pay anything to another person.
Things in BlendSwap are working as intended.
It is by design that people chose to use BlendSwap, every open source buff knows the drill, others can copy, modify, distribute or sell whatever you put there so is not a big issue, it is how it works, it is how it was supposed to work, it is how people create in the open source culture, it is how people make a living out of it.
Source: BlendSwap FAQ
Just so everyone knows and doesn’t continue making assumptions – I’ve spoken to Chris, he’s perfectly happy with me releasing my textured version.
However I do feel bad, so I offered to texture a future model of his and allow him to sell it (without giving me anything) – not sure what his exact answer to that was, but we’re both keen to collaborate again in future.
Hi Greg,
I was a bit shocked at the reactions posted here about your work and I just want to let you know that I think you followed the letter and the spirit of open source and blend swap.
If someone would complain about being “undercut” by the free textures you provided, I would suggest they find another way to advertise their product. I’m happy Chris is apparently not such a person.
Was surprised myself with the outcry. Glad to know at the base of it all, you two are on good terms about it. :)
I can’t believe some of the BlenderNation commentors. Assuming way too much, jumping to rip people down for making an awesome render with a model uploaded on blendswap. Greg is part of the community just like all of us, I think its unfair to pull a ‘nail that sticks out gets hammered’ attack on the excuse that you are defending the original modeler.
I definetly agreed with lee, but I also think that it is time for blender to get a website only open to professionals. I am really sick and tired of children-like comments and tired of people beeing able to post comments on people’s work so freely and without any consideration whatesoever.
It’s not Blender only – it’s the whole internet :)
You got that right! No one seems to realize just how important every word is and the full import of how those words can affect others. It can make quite a study! I’m certainly guilty of speaking without thinking, but I really try to make sure that my words are the truth before I speak them. Just yesterday I needed an example of something and accidentally stepped on Blender Nerds toes… Sorry about that Greg and Co.! It’s hard not to feel attacked, even when you feel that the masses at your heels are wrong… just ask Jesus! lol That’s an extreme example, but whether you believe in that or not, it rings true. It seems that the bigger the gathering of people, the more petty, or thoughtlessly indignant, the group becomes… Those who would only have the truth need thick skin, diligent minds and the courage to speak the truth as soon as possible in order to stamp out the sparks of ignorance, which we all spew out at times, before they become wildfires. And we all need to learn to recognize the truth when other people show us our own ignorance and be humble enough to appreciate it. “There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force!” Lol Peace.
A professional artist’s board, e.g. ConceptArt.org, is a better choice for such a community. Otherwise, if you stick here, you need to help guide posts by example, maybe not by commenting on poor quality of posts and instead providing insight as to how one might post porperly. :)
All,
I can confirm that I am totally fine with what Greg did. Beautiful work, and honestly his textures are probably better than mine. Honestly, I’m thrilled that people care enough to bring this up. Most of the time on the internet, “ethics” is not a consideration :) Thanks for all the support from Greg, BlendSwap Admins, and others. You guys are all awesome.
-Chris-
Chris, you are really noble minded. An example for all of us.
Aw, shucks… :)
Is this a star wars copy, or original?
It’s an original design. It started when I was screwing with a Bezier Circle one day and it sort of turned into a spaceship:) Of course, I’m sure there were plenty of subconscious inspirations. Millenium Falcon, for instance… or Serenity. The nose gadgets are vaguely reminiscent of an Apache, etc.
Ship is absolutely original , not only that, she has a fine character . I am not a certified ship expert, but , because I love the topic so much I do try to keep up with SCIFI themes.
Then again I would like to raise another question , thinking of the whole universe and all forms of existence , human imagination would not be a drop next to the word ” original ” . I mean, this ship indeed may be out there, going through one star to another …
I’ve had a little vodka, so that makes perfect sense to me:)
Also, I’ve seen your work on Blendswap. Amazing.
Nice job guys!
I too would like to see more of this type of collaboration in the blender community, this is how they do things in the real world isn’t it:)? Not everyone can be a master of all trades, I think it’s refreshing to see people doing one thing really well. Keep it up!
Sorry, folks, but I have to agree with Tyrant monkey and AnonymousCoward on the bottom-line point they make. I see nothing wrong done here. If Chris Kuhn willingly released this original model under the Attribution CC-BY license, and this is what that license states:
You are free:to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the workto Remix — to adapt the workto make commercial use of the workUnder the following conditions:Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).
…and this is exactly what Greg did. I see no violation of any rule, nor did he violate the spirit of any rule. If anything, he used BlendSwap for one of its purposes. Now if he was to texture, rig, and animate this model and then sell it on TurboSquid as their own model, then we’d have a problem. But say even if someone was to reduce the model to low-poly and texture the model use it in a game (though, I wouldn’t do that, personally), that license states that even that is legal. It was Chris’ choice to release the model at BlendSwap under this condition.Frankly, instead of getting all offended for Chris, how about considering the nature of his action? If you release something on a site of BlendSwap’s nature and under this Creative Commons license, then (unless you just didn’t understand the nature of the website or license) clearly you wouldn’t have anything to feel “violated” about here. Just because he’s selling his model on TurboSquid still doesn’t negate the fact that he purposely shared it on BlendSwap. Besides, the TurboSquid version is textured, rigged, animated, and ready for immediate production use–which is the nature of TurboSquid’s site.Just because there’s a free untextured unrigged version on BlendSwap doesn’t mean that his work on TurboSquid goes in vain–people go to TurboSquid with the interest of saving time and effort in trade of a price. His work still has purpose on both sites he purposely released his model–one’s in the interest of sharing with other Blender users and the other’s in the interest of saving time in production work.Can someone use the BlendSwap model for commercial work? Yes, because he released it under the license clearly stating such. But does he still have a good chance of selling his work on TurboSquid? Yes, because the nature of TurboSquid is to save producers time and effort with work where time is money. Not to mention that not everyone shopping on TurboSquid uses Blender (most 3D content producers) and TurboSquid is willing to convert the .blend file to any other common file format for the buyer for free. Again, I’m pretty sure Chris has probably considered all this (and even if he didn’t, then he should have). I’m planning to do the same thing myself, in fact–I will release my game models on both BlendSwap and sell them on TurboSquid.As for our man Greg–really, he just illustrated the power of this means of Blend Swap and used the purpose of that Creative Common license. The guy did nothing wrong here, in spirit or otherwise. I think some people need to make sure they’re correct first before they go needlessly correcting others here.
How does one get it to work with the blender program i get no where :(
Go to blenderartist.org you will get everything you need to know about blender ;)
maybe more helpful for you: http://www.blender.org/education-help/tutorials/
enjoy blender! Any Questions that you can’t solve yourself (check blender wiki or just websearch) you can ask in blenderartists.org