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Microsoft emails Blender About File Format Support
Published by Bart on May 13th, 2008 in 3D News, Development
Microsoft's Open Source support has recently contacted the Blender developers regarding their file format support. Groklaw picked it up and wrote an interesting piece on it.
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Microsoft don't understand what open source is and what it really means. All they want is for people to migrate to their systems. They have _never_ done anything good that wasn't a part of that plan.
Also, thank you Bart for linking to a groklaw, and not just some MS PR propaganda.
hahaha…great one Shadowman99
This is a Microsoft free zone! Mircosoft could learn a lot from Google and it's do-no-evil philosophy. Unfortunatly im still on XP but this only furthurs my resolve to not buy from Microsoft again, I will miss Photoshop, and the whole Adobe cast though.
Argghh, my first Groklaw link and I had to use "to" instead of "too".
If MS want to support blender better then they should fix the crippled OpenGL support. personally i would like to see Blender drop support for Microsoft Windows.
@Irowebot
"I will miss Photoshop, and the whole Adobe cast though."
Why? I'm running a (legal) copy of photoshop CS2 and Flex Builder on my linux box without any major problems.
Google and it's do-no-evil philosophy
yeah yeah… what about google in china?….
lol just read it and I to think it is a trap, they want to know the file types so they can make addons or changes so they won't work in linux anymore :)
But not that you can blame them being competitive, but helping them is another thing.
Something about that letter just doesn't sound right. I think if MS really wants to be more open, They need to make windows free and make it so there is no product key required and then open the source code to the general public. I don't think MS is capable of doing that because that would be an honest thing to do.
If they truly supported those formats, they would've already. They damn well know ODF is the true document standard, not their own contrived formats.
Aside from that, can't they just use google or msn and figure out what formats Blender users want? Read the bugtracker or download graphicall builds? Seems like a useless e-mail to me.
What file formats does MS want to support? and why? as far as I am concerned Blender runs good enough on MS to keep me happy.
I have never bought a copy of windows, and never will. Not only because it does not fully support Opensource, but it rarely supports its own apps without crashing horribaly, take vista for example. F**k off MS.
What Microsoft formats could Blender possibly be interested in? Probably none.
The Groklaw article seems to just use this non-event as an excuse for another long-winded tirade.
Does anybody want to open power point docs in blender ? :)
delic,
MS Office specs have been published, so if anyone wants to support PowerPoint, nothing is stopping them.
I had enough, with blendernation and groklaw comments. soon in slashdot (oops not in slashdot)
Another dirty-tactic-seems-valid-in-the-name-of-business. Blender is moving forward beautifully. MS don't mess with it. What MS can do is improve OpenGL support, not with this f****g file format thing.
I also think it would be absolutely hilarious if blender dropped windows support in the latest versions… but that's totally not practical yet and won't happen until we take their market share down below like 10%, which will take several years at least.
Don't let Microsoft mess with Blender…..
Think - this big company is only focused on increasing its money base…. All nice words cannot change it…
Really I hate Microsoft and their commercial policy!!!!!!!
It seems both paranoid and not very intelligent to turn down Microsoft assistance without at least hearing what they have to offer. They do after all make one of the platforms that Blender runs on. They have access to information that can help us make Blender better.
The basic idea of Open source is that anyone who wants to help is welcome, even Microsoft. We just have to be careful and not accept anything from them that is in conflict with our open source philosophy.
It's simple really: If the help comes free of charge, accept it. If they have conditions attached to the help just say no thanks.
Maybe MS want to render an animation to there wmv format.
MS opensource minded ??
"Microsoft's Open Source Support team". That's the best joke in ages!
I'm not a software developer so I can't see what any Microsoft interference could do to improve Blender? Blender is already the fastest, leanest, and most stable bit of software on my machine, especially when compared with any of their own irritating Office products. If Microsoft are pretending to show an interest it's simply because they don't have a 3D application / format, but their big rival Google has.
TheRealKove..I am not a paranoid and my friends would tell you that I am very intelligent….so here is my point…
Could you imagine situation when Microsoft is supporting blender like the other applications which are supported by MS, so they would actually discriminate other OS…like Linux or Macs….
Only what they want is to make Blender more Microsoftish, and less Linuxish or Macish :)
THIS company only want to make its position on the trade STRONGER !!!! They prove it in past, in present and IT IS their future strategy!!!!!!!
Yeah is that simple, I don't understand why nobody see it!!!!
Well, they could take the stupid 1.5Gb memory limitation per program, allowing blender to use all the system free memory, that would help allot :)
They also could make windows use less memory when doing nothing and give it to Blender, improve the OpenGL system, remove the virus… and they will be in the right way ;)
None of the mentioned things riquire any kind of help from the Blender Guys, they can do it all by themselfs ^_^
I like Windows allot, and I would like to keep using it with Blender. So please Mr. Microsoft's Open Source support, Improve it the best you can, but don't anoy blender guys, they are busy improving Blender ^_~
I used Windows in the past and I now regret every minute of it. If you help people use Blender, that's good, but make Blender more for the truly open source users like Linux users, don't ever make it "built for Windows".
They want to destroy their competitors(Linux, Mac,…), and build their monopol even a bigger then now!!!!
Make Blender more Microsoftish mean make him less open….so it's kind of sad for me see people agreeing about that….. WE must kept together and don't let MS to make our pure open blender community dirty….
How about some silverlight export? Just kidding… Couldn't resist… xD But honestly… We could use some better integration of MSN Live Spaces! xD Or a better support for plain text files! ;D
Guys, as far as I'm understanding, they don't want to help directly improving Blender like "Oh sure we will code 20.000 lines of code for you to make Blender faster on Vista". It's more indirect by sharing knowledge about their own file formats, like "If your developers want to know how Excel files work, we can tell them." Because, if everybody supports MS files that makes them standard file formats. And if your company owns the standard format you can control it's new features and you can make sure your own products will be the first to support those new features. And of course all other products will be depending from you.
I dunno… Somehow I feel a disturbance in the force…
Sparkus: I feel it too ;) My intuition never lied to me!
Sparkus: I feel it too ;) My intuition never lied to me!
We can make it without them!!!! So why we should join…..
I see your point, and you are right, Microsoft wants to be big, stay big and grow bigger. But the Blender Foundation is in a position where it can pick and chose what to implement in it's project. If Microsoft offers information and assistance that makes Blender a better software then we should accept their help.
Open source is based on accepting volonteered help. Microsoft is offering their assistance, basically asking "what can we do to make blender run better on windows?". We should accept. If for nothing else than to see if they are sincere. If we don't like what they give us we just won't use it.
I've read this a few times, and every time a new alarmbell rings in my head.
Like Mike said, they could've supported those formats, appications etc ages ago.
They have names for these strategies of theirs. FUD, EEE, etc etc….
Don't trust them, don't reply, just don't do bussines with them.
Freakydude: Absolutely agree!!!!!!
Yeah but how you can be sure that this kind of game with this company would be completely ok….
Maybe I must say it a little clearer…..
You said "Microsoft wants to be big, stay big and grow bigger." that's everyone here probably agree….. So I would like to complete you….
They want to make money, a lot of money…
They asked what they can do to make blender better on windows…. What they really want is to see people migrating on their windows saying
"Hey, here in Windows is better ***I don't know, some sort of update**** so I will use Windows instead of linux or mac,beacuse of this great update, oh but I must buy it…:( I don't have money to buy windows and with this new blocking system which is MS installing automaticly on my Vista I can't even crack it!!! So I must use Linux, but wait….here isn't this great update…so what I gonna do? Oh maan I must buy the windows, what the f**k, I don't have a choice."
In a way, Two Blenders, one better one worst (better on windows, worst on other OS - this MS wants to see :)
But Blender community is open right? This could be start of the new community which I don't want to be part of!!!!
"Are there files in the Windows universe you need to have
a better Blender user experience?"
Well, I wouldn't mind if Microsoft allowed Blender Game Engine to build xBox games :p
Or could they allow other systems like mac and linux to make use of directX mmmh?
No?
Oh nevermind…
#########################################################################################
MS plans for Blender :
- Drop OpenGL support
- Entice blender staff to use Direct X 11 and use Basic instead of python for Blender VIsta
- Blender dies in its own poop while MS struggle to debug Direct X 11
I have to say also….
Don't trust them, don't reply, just don't do bussines with them.
I am thinking about initiate a petition to eject a person that has been assigned to us from MS…
Microsoft, evil…yes.
on the other hand they are trying to make a profit, they pay a lot of people and support those peoples families…does Bill need 8 Ferrari's'…no that is too much time to give some back Bill.
I would't worry about .blend file support though. It's a common thing to support multiple formats.
Currently, Microsoft have little or no reason to care whether Open Source software like Blender can be made to run *better* under Windows XP or Vista. It only generates work for them and makes no profit. Blender runs fine under XP or Vista, so nobody would buy a copy of Windows XP or Vista just because Blender had been made to run a bit quicker on it than their Mac/Linux system.
However, "Open source support" is probably a necessary part of their long term strategy. The next version of Windows will probably have even more crazy graphics demands, and they want to make sure that the new OS won't actually *stop* people buying a new Windows PC, simply because it won't run their favourite (i.e. open source) software any more. Microsoft need to evaluate what technologies all the major Open Source software relies on, then make sure they support that in the next version of Windows.
Failing to support Open Source favourites like Blender would guarantee a mass migration away from Windows.
Okay - I see the reasons why not to trust Microsoft on this and I largely agree so far. If they say they want open formats then they should deliver open formats. Actually I agree to about everyting written in the Groklaw link above.
Still to all those saying that it would be funny to drop windows support for Blender: That's just as bad for a real open code community as microsoft trying to create Windows-Specifics. It's against being really open to any platform anywhere and just as biased as microsoft is in seeing OpenSource as a battle to win.
Open Source should be like Swiss - neutral ;)
Hi, we're Microsoft. Oh, by the way, we're open-source!
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*Quote*
I would like to know what feedback you might have received
regarding the files your users most often import and those they might
be having a sub-optimal experience with
*Quote*
Yes I would like to be able to open up all known formats( fully ) of .doc in OpenOffice using Linux. Without being sued for supposively intellectual property miss use.
OOXML, an open standard…. Don't make me laugh.
Pienso que Micro$oft quiere obtener un Beneficio economico privativo de esto (quiza una patente), convertir blender en parte de su empresa mediante algun plug-in para el uso "optimo" de blender… Como dice Shadowman99, es una trampa!
Este es un ejemplo de lo nefasto que es Micro$oft: http://www.openxml.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=7
I think that Micro$oft want to obtain a benefit economic and privative of this (may be a patent), convert blender in part of their company by means of some plug-in to "optimum" use of blender under privative instances… how say Shadowman99, it's a Trap!
This an example of what ill-fated microsoft are: http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-30775/ooxml:got-the-facts-straight
If they want to make Blender run better on Windows, even only to get people to buy windows instead of any other OS, then why not?
Linux/mac just have to be as good as windows supporting Blender.
Although we don't need Office documents supported in Blender, wmv would be neat.
And I agree about the OpenGL-thing…
Blender has come a long way without MS help or interest, therefor theres is no need to work with them.
But if blender people wants to work with MS, then they should feed them shit and keep them in the dark, like they have always done.
It really just seems like part of a PR campaign directed at the open source community. This just happens to be the form letter as it has been modified for the Blender foundation.
Microsoft needs to be more open for practical business reasons. Linux distros along with all the major open source titles keep improving, stealling away the market they so dominate.
Younger generations on tighter budgets and who are more computer savvy while being inherently more open are both willing and capable of using open source alternatives. My mom and dad would never be able to learn all the things they need to make everything run they way they expect from Microsoft on a Linux machine running open source. Microsoft needs us more than we need them.
If they begin to close out in some way, the ability to run open source in Windows, we would be very willing to switch to Linux or even Mac. And with wine in Linux, you don't even need to stop using all of the Windows based programs you have. ReactOS is coming along as well. There is always an alternative. And I don't think there is any thing we need to fear from Microsoft.
Greed is good, especially when you use it against them.
Just tell them our file formats are fine, and to go and fix vista. Or throw it away and start again.
FAIL.
I have to say I am surprised at the level of viciousness towards Microsoft in this thread.
There are certainly things in Microsoft apps that annoy me but I also respect them for building some of the most awesome stuff out there like DirectX, HD Photo, VC-1 and the .NET framework. I expect Windows is the platform of choice for most Blender uses and will be for a long while yet. People should not forget that. Additionally motivation for people to use Blender over Max/Maya is probably not the same as that that motivates people to install Linux. I worry that with this hostile outlook Blender will ultimately fall to the lowest common denominator and not leverage the strengths of each platform it runs.
As far as the article it’s self and help with Microsoft file formats.
!!! HD Photo !!!
• Arbitrary number of colour channels
• Lossy and lossless
• 8/16/32bit fixed and floating point colour
• Additional image meta data
pyrosever: :)))))
2 innactpro: "And I don't think there is any thing we need to fear from Microsoft." either you are very naive or very clever….
Almigthy Microsoft propaganda….. only for half-brains…..
I will do everything what I can to stop this!!!! Begin with petition…. Yesterday I will post it on BlenderArtists.org and I gonna send it directly to Ton Roosendaal….
What about an Open DirectX implementation for the Game Engine and the Blender Interface ?
"With respect to Blender, what can you tell me about your community/user
feedback that you have heard regarding file formats?"
I can: "Go away, Microsoft, and leave us be! No one likes a domineering Hitler corporation who's only agenda is to milk as much money from other people as possible."
I use Windows and I'm very ok with it.
So if there's a way for Blender to work even better on it, I'd go for it.
For instance if we could have an enhanced directX exporter or a .wmv support, I'd be just glad.
On the other hand, some here are over-reacting IMO.
Just ask yourself two questions :
1 - can Blender and its way of being developped and published be taken over by Microsoft ?
2 - Can Microsoft force you to use Windows instead of Linux/Mac ?
So I think you can chill out a little bit now…
(On a side note, [quote Pavel Siska]"I am not a paranoid and my friends would tell you that I am very intelligent…".[/quote] If your friends are morons or 5-years old, it doesn't mean much to say something like this, and sorry but except seeing you flooding this thread with paranoïd anti-Microsoft-evil posts, I yet have to read something from you that would make me think you are indeed very clever.)
I think the global goal of Blender is to be as good as possible, no matter who participates and what OS it's for.
Am I the ONLY one that saw that as MS wanting to know what "OTHER" formats Blender was having a "less than optimal" experience with? Rather than the "HI, we are M$, what can we take from you today?" ??
If Blender were to stop supporting Windows (And I don't see this happening), a LARGE portion of its user base would simply dry up! And talk about FUD; I see alot of it here.
One of the reasons that blender is so popular is because 3D Studio MAX is obscenely expensive, and nothing else comes close to its capabilities for the price. However, I don't see anyone waving pitchforks and torches at Autodesk and their "PROPRIETARY" MAX format! How come no other application can import MAX files (.3DS doesn't count!)???
Don't get me wrong. I love Blender and I love the price. 99% of the work done to improve Blender is done for the simple thrill of doing so. But I also notice the "donations" page is still present.
MS (just like many other companies) just wants to make money selling stuff that people want to buy.
/rant: sorry, I got wound up after hearing NPR report on the Bill Gates Charitable foundation, which is using 39 BILLION dollars to make the world a more oval place in which to live, yet NPR was accusing them of "doing it wrong".
I don`t like this its kinda evil what Microsoft say.
it does not feel good to me.
and blender people is not stupid they are smarter than microsoft.
and i think that blender people does not thrust them to.
if you know what i mean.
i have a question to bart.
do you thrust/believe this what microsoft say?
We should ask them for a GPL-compatible (both GPL2 and GPL3) patent pledge for all their file formats. I.E., a patent pledge that is automatic, royalty free, irrevocable and spread ad infinitum with redistribution of the code.
Then we could craft a comments only header file and distribute it under "GPL2 or later", so it can spread this patent pledge in a viral way to every other GPL'd software that needs to use MS formats :)
to Baboule: It is not too hard to see the end of the chain!!! Please keep you personal ratings of my intelligence in your own head. And mainly don't talk about my friend this way….. what you have proved is decreasing of IQ by summertime :)
You quote me so it would be unpolite:
Your Quote:
"I think the global goal of Blender is to be as good as possible" - yet I agree ;)
"no matter who participates" - are you kidding? You mean blood money are okay( sorry for that kind of exaggaration and I don't blaim everyone from MS to kill someone :), or stolen money, or simply money from
Microsoft who is only carrying about increasing his money and building mega-monopol meanwhile someone on this world hasn't money to food????????!!!!!!!!!!
"and what OS it's for." - that's enough maaaaan, you must be some kind of a miscrosoft joker. How you can say something like this, no matter what platform? :))))
Your first sentence "I use Windows and I'm very ok with it." - I have heard about that kind of mental disease
:(((( peace
These are totaly awful words which is Microsoft saying, they just talk so easy, friendly and polite. But in Reality they aren't, they want more users on their Windows. I would say no to Windows. Why do they support so xtremely the file formats on other os like mac, linux?
And the don't have to talk that they make wounderful opensource software, they do nothing.
Pls say no!
It was very "nice" of you to make that friendly (or even if it wasn't so friendly) e-mail from Microsoft in the centre of attention and write some creative works over it.
Now they know how Blender community responds on their partnership offers: quoting each sentence and commenting it in public in impolite way. Nice catch, author.
I wonder how would Sun Microsystems or Canonical Ltd. respond on that kind of message. I doubt, it would be the same way Blender Community have took.
Now, be nice guys and apologize or at least don't do this again for sake of undercover politeness and fake friendship.
This's not the _NEUTRAL_ position which author was talking about. Looks like agressive.
Surely we need continued or improved openGL support in Windows
Does anyone know what percent of blenderers actually use windows?
I have noticed it's installed by default on every one of the thousand or so windows computers at my Uni.
Apologize? Why? Man, it has been a long time ago I apologized for my opinion
They specific call it 'their battle', something very unusual in the opensource-community, and 'they' want to fit in?
If you do the math with the text, their main goal is $, also something that is very unusual considering most friendly-opensource-communities not to mention the sometimes total free-opensource-communities.
That make the total conclusion: OpenSource is a way of life, a way of life Microsoft can't pay for and they can't buy it in shares.
@Agent A.L : are you saying that we shouldn't post this because people might react negatively? I don't think that's how we like to work.
NielsBlender: :) good argument…..
I'm with Agent A.L
Some of you are acting like Microsoft is the next Nazi revolution. Calm down.
We love open source as much as you do, but if Microsoft want to come to an agreement to make it work better in their operating system?
Surely we can give a nod in their direction?
It's only recently Microsoft went to court, since some mother programmed a msnlock for her children, she made it commercially available for other parents to control/cut the 'addictive-behaviour' of 'modern-children'.
They(ms) won, and she can't use the name 'msnlock', which is the correct name for parents that are in need and searching for something like it. I guess Microsoft only supports the children-addiction-point-of-view… Microsoft community-feelings? Don't make me laugh ;)
I am sick of a stupid Microsoft propaganda all over the world!!!
That's why is Blender so special, its multiplatform universality, no OS is discriminated, no OS is favoured….it's free, it's open….
and here comes MICROSOFT….oh maan, that's like very bad joke!!!
MS wants to help? Come on!
This is Micrososft that says everything.
@Pavel: allright, we get it now - you don't like Microsoft. Move along now, please.
…and can we drop this whole, MICROSOFT IS EVIL HURRR
How much money have YOU donated to charity??
As Dave S said, try and beat 39 Billion.
I currently use Windows, though I've been thinking about putting together a Linux machine exclusively for my Blender use.
You know, in one way this is good news. Why? Well, think about it. Microsoft contacts the Blender Foundation about this (and I agree, it's all about making money). As far as I'm concerned, that's a testament to just how good Blender actually is! After all, they don't go after everyone…generally they deal with the serious threats!
My first impulse would be to tell Microsoft to go suck an egg. But let the passion cool down and lets see how we can play this to our advantage.
It is very hypocritical of you all to munch down on Microsoft like that. I am a microsoft hater too, but those are emotions, and we are dealing with a practical world here. Blender is Open Source… so there is nothing standing in the way of anyone or any company to get the source code, change it and make it play like XSI or Maya, and bundle it as a free and open source package with there OS as a come on.
The Blender institute has worked with other commercial companies before if I'm not mistaken (Sun for example). So why should Microsoft be any different. Microsoft can't dictate the direction Blender is taken, but maybe they are interested in a way to use a high end technology that is free to use for there own purposes. Blender being open source, they HAVE to publish the source if they decide later on to tinker in it…. unless they are working on plug-ins could stay their own property.
I'm just saying, play it out. Blender is heavily protected under GPL. It could turn out to be mutually beneficial. Unless someone from the angry mob above could come with some really strong arguments for the contrary?
@Pavel Siska
I have to apologize for I have been a little bit too personal too quick on this. Sorry about that.
For the rest of your post, about I'm stupid because I don't use the same OS as you and being fine with it, about Microsoft making money while people are dying of starvation in the world, about blood money, stolen money, and the so, and about me being a "microsoft joker" because I don't have the same vision as you do, and all that glorious post of yours, I have to say that I don't feel up to your level of intelligence and I prefer not to try to get into an argument with someone as brilliant as you.
I give up and won't annoy you anymore.
Bye and happy blendering !
This email came from Microsoft just weeks after their purchase of Caligari, the makers of the commercial Blender competitor, trueSpace.
Gates & Co. are definitely up to something.
Microsoft is just one of those companies…
Besides, it should be good publicity too for Blender. It will give Blender more exposure. It could smite the myth that Blender is 'toy' programmed by amateurs in the mind of critics if it can be related with the most successful software company in the world. The publicity could further help attract more users/ developers/ studios.
If Microsoft is so evil (and I agree it is), then why doesn't the Blender institute drop the MS support?