Ton's keynote at the Berlinale movie festival is now online. They use a *horrible* flash player (no pause, or scratch functions), and for some people it won't work. Still, it you get it to work it's worth your 20 minutes!
The video also contains 30 seconds of Peach - unedited, unfinished sound and with errors in the animation, but still. The Blender Institute has decided NOT to publish this separately and, to be honest, I'm very disappointed by that. The visitors of the Berlinale get to see movie material before we, the community who (partially) financed this project, do.
Update: *ahem* I think we err, killed their streaming server already. Please try again later ;-)
Update 2: I elaborated on my feelings below, in the comments.
75 Comments
O.o
a Kinda understandible Ton Rosendaal O.o
never had before!
Damn...
I didn't think about the pause option...
I posted too early, and now, I didn't see the whole thing :(
Hihi... last fruit should be CARAMBOLA!1!
...
Noes! It went black o.O
hm... the end seemed to be missing for me. i didn't get to the peach stuff...
can someone upload it to youtube (or something like that). is that allowed?
Bart, correct yourself. Ha!
Since Ton couldn't go to the Berlina movie festival empty handed, he had to take something we could squeeze out the computer the very last second. And since they (Berlin) haven't seen ANYTHING of Peach, it's fair we show them something new and representable that puts Peach and Blender in a good light. The community has been given a fair amount of insight into the entire process, without being too much spoiled with the story. Also the community needs something to look out for.
Love ya,
Sacha
"Also the community needs something to look out for."
How patronizing.
Bart, when I said "something to look out for" I meant to say "something to look forward to". And if you did understood it like that, I can only say that all the work, hours and dedication I put into this project give me at least the right to choose what to make open for the public. Especially when it comes to my creative input as writer/director.
I wouldn't want to see an unfinished part of Peach. I think it's ok to wait until it's done.
But what the hell did they do with Ton's microphone? You can hear every breathe, every sip of water... The people that were organizing this keynote could have been doing a better job.
Sago,
let me say that I mean absolutely no disrespect to you and your team - you guys are doing amazing work and both the movie and Blender's development will benefit from that in countless ways.
However, it feels really strange to me that somehow this early material was suitable to be shown to the audience of a famous movie festival but not to the our own community. I (think) I understand why you guys are cautious with releasing material too early - everyone wants to release top-notch quality, right? Then again, would you rather that someone grabs the current 30 second footage from the German stream and turns it into a crappy YouTube version? Because this *will* happen of course. I think it would be better to be in control yourself, and treat the Blender community a little-bit better than a film festival audience at the same time.
Oh well, we should probably just agree to disagree on this one ;-)
Bart
Bart I agree with you :)
@Daniel: agree, or agree to disagree, or .. oh man!
*unties brain*
The server is still down, hope they get better platforms for webcasting next time.
Damn, the video stopped at the slide "Why Open Projects for me?"
I'd like to see the peach material!
I can't see the problem with them showing some stuff at the berlinale. It is a great opportunity.
I bet they were working on a really tight shedule and weren't able to show it to the *community* before the keynote.
But oh, how sad you had to wait a few hours.
//oops! days not hours...but what does it matter?
ehh, seems they cut it off .... direct link is http://www.infiring.com/berlinale_keynotes/roosendahl.flv
-AntonG
i really dont understand Bart post,i think it is not a propblem,the blender community help the project but the project is free for evyryone to see and watch,we have financed but wa have not copyright on this product.
I think it's foolish to be angry about this. Sacha (Sago is Sacha, right?) said that those people hadn't seen anything of Peach. We've seen interview after interview with the members, sneak peeks of the animation and even (almost) final renders. We've seen plenty and we're bound to see more. 30 unfinished seconds at a film festival doesn't make me jealous...
Direct link is ko'd :( I'm just interested in seeing the Ton speak at the film festival. I'll see peach soon enough. :)
The nature of the words 'make correction' make the current value marked as 'mistake' or 'unjust'... can't seem to find a references to mark it as such.
Niels
ps.
About the sound quality;
These kind of presentations use voice mics(mostly sennheiser) directly to a (amp-)mixer and sometime don't even care to set the equaliser, basically when there's no feedback(->'hightone') it's 'OK'... Things like lowpass-filter, a de-esser, compression, etc, etc, isn't used...
The (cam)recorder also did't take the line-out from the mixer and records with a tiny 'sing-along'-no-bass-quality mic. ;)
Their site is not working at all with me, can someone upload the video to http://www.zshare.net please?
Let's get this video back!
I think Bart has too much time on his hands. If you can waste time like this, clearly your not spending much time
working on Blender or something else.
@nonpartisan: 'clearly' you have no idea how much time I have to put into this site, and 'clearly' you think I should only bring 'hallelujah' Blender news? You don't have to agree with me, but don't pretend to know even a single thing about me.
IM REALLY DISAPOINTED BY WHAT HAPPENING HERE.GO AND MAKE SOME BEAUTIFUL ARTWORK INSTEAD OF LOOSING YOUR TIME WITH USELESS DISCUTION.
Well if it has errors and stuff - its just as well.
As far as community funding goes, how
can we assume some of the Berlindale audience doesn't support Blender or open movies?
I find it hard to believe none of them are at least involved in the community if they invite Ton over.
I understand both Sago and Bart
but I don't understand the people who try to block a discussion or tell others to 'go and make artwork'.
There are many people involved in Blender, like Bart doing an excellent job with this page or for example brecht who is coding and many others who don't make any art but try to improve both Blender and the basic requirements for a working community.
I also don't think it was a good decision to show any material, no matter how far the develepment of BBB is but I respect Sago's work. :)
Ton should have used some screens from peach and parts of elephants dream but I haven't seen the Berlinale video yet so I don't know if this would have been enough.
Harggg!!! I can't see a thing! Is it still down or it's my Pc that doesn't play it!?
Calm down everyone, Bart is right but sago is also right... Ton couldn't just go empty handed to a Film festival, but I guess it would be prefareble release a post in the peach blog with the same video simultaneusly, because we will eventualy see it anyway so :/
I don't understand where you're coming from Bart. With all the video interviews you've posted, we've much more of an insight than those who've only sat through a short talk from Ton. Of course he had to show them *something*.
I personally wouldn't want to see unfinished clips showing the storyline, no matter how short. It's like people watching poor quality leaked CGI footage - just like what happened to the Hulk film. People saw that before its release and panned the whole film as poor quality.
Your hard work with BlenderNation really acts as an ambassador for Blender. I love the site and the obvious commitment you show, however, it's really sad to see you in your position of respect having public spats with those so close to the development team :(
I also don't understand your comment about the video finding its way to YouTube. Surely the Berlinale organisers control the rights to presentations made at *their* festival. If it's leaked, then it should be reported and removed from YouTube. By choosing opensource, we should still respect copyright where it exists.
Please let the artists have the right to choose who sees what and when.
Sorbus :)
As wit many I agree with Bart and Sago, But there is other projects as well, such as Project Valor, though not complete, it will be a bloody good example! And this to me, gives more to the blender comunity than peach, (no offence guys) as peach is still in infancy, Yes, we have interviews with the guys, but to me it comes down to ethics - It seems unfair that mr X coded for days, and mr Y, who does not give 2 shts about blender, or opensource, gets to see it first. but hey, to all people and developers at blender - my hats off to you, great job.
Hey guy I think I found a good stream ;-)
http://www.medienboard.de/WebObjects/Medienboard.woa/wa/CMSshow/1454433
Sorry I think the libnk is so not correct.
http://www.medienboard.de/WebObjects/Medienboard.woa/wa/CMSshow/1441644?_highlight=blender+
when press on the fourth video, it shoud work
TristaN, tnx!
This one is working fine, ok ... hopefully this intro part will be available on peach blog in full resolution as well, we anyhow seen it now! I agree with Bart.
-AntonG
I'm with Bart on this one, but from another perspective; Bart is our press, he is our voice, as a journalist (or blogaist) goes and I think it's a huge mistake hushing him up, because he voice an opinion. I think that Sago's choice to answer is good, we should have an open discussion!
As for the actual issue at hand, as one of the people who paid for the movie I am disappointed as well - you could have send it to blendernation and ask them to put a huge disclaimer saying that anyone who doesn't want a spoiler shouldn't see it + add a captcha, I know Bart has the technologies :)
From what Bart write it sounds like he tried asking for the segment and was denied - if that happened, I think you should reconsider doing it the way I suggest above. It will be quite sad that bad blood will rise from the fruits-initiative.
^_^ Very funny those 30sec. of big buck bunny!
I was impressed with the animation, amasing stuff... and sounds real cool too ;)
Also funny is see Ton talking wille the camera points to the blound lady :P
I liked this keynote, it really sums it up what blender its all about ^_^
I think I understand Ton and Peach team. They decided to do it this way because they feel really responsible to Blender community. So they showed to the anonymous film stars who really no nothing about Blender something interesting - "movie trailer", unfinished, WIP. These people in Berlinale does not care for Blender. To show them some rigging features, fast ambient occlusion, ... or other stuff available at Peach blog does not really make sense.
But for community Peach teams would like to present top notch result. They do not want to disappoint us. I guess this is the reason why they can show WIP trailer to Berlinale audience but CANNOT show it to the community .
Please try to keep the venom away, we all love Blender, Ton, Bart, Peach team and all the community :) why fight on trivia ???
Well just to add more to this discussion, I just want to thank Bart for keeping up with new content everyday. Awesome job man! I agree to both points of view here. I just finished watching the video, and I think Ton did a great job with his presentation; and to the rest of the peach team, great job guys, keep it up. My interest with blender started after the release of elephants dream, and after keeping a close watch I can't help it but to want to help. I have no money, barely know my way around blender, and don't know how to use python. So I'll try everything else that I can, even though I already made some mistakes, (mancandy) I'll keep on trying. BTW, I hope some of the tutorials that'll be on the DVD will explain how to reuse the resources, for example how to re-render the entire movie or add more scenes.
Direct link to the streamming:
http://www.medienboard.de/WebObjects/Medienboard.woa/wa/CMSshow/1454434
Hell hath no fury like a community scorned! Whether we see it first, second or dead last, what matters is we see it. Paid for by us or not, they don't owe us anything. I'm just glad that they show us as much as they do. Who came first, Blender or BlenderNation? Blender of course. I think we all need to remember that. Without these guys doing this stuff, we'd all be blogging about Britney! (Or something else just as trivial) That's my two scents anyway. Who knew Bart was so sensitive! If it's any consulation Bart, we all still love you!
Joking aside, I really do respect what you do Bart, but they don't owe us first, or any look for that matter, at anything. Just as you don't owe us anything either. You decided to do this site, not the community. I for one am grateful to you for your work and to Ton and the rest of the guys for theirs. Labors of love that they are.
Wow, really good, great! Ton was great! He's very inteligent!
" If it's any consulation Bart, we all still love you!" no we dont , Bart shut up and bring your halleluja Blender news. :P
So, how do I get my script\directorial vision to Ton for an action-packed-alien-invasion-battle-epic-explosions-bloody-violent video that I came up with that is (in my mind) synchronized to the song 'Woodpecker from Mars' by Faith No More?
I've story-boarded some of it and made the mesh-model for the 'Bad Guy'. I had fully intended to do everything myself (that whole labor of love thing), but then Ton said he was looking to do something with monsters and action, Dude, let's do lunch! It'll take me forever doing this thing in my free time and I'd like to get it out of my head before then! Ton, call me! (Well, actually, email me!)
Bart has a point here. If the material isn't good enough to leak to the long-living blender community, it's definitely not good enough to leak into the public at a speach at the berlinale and establish a broader mindshare for the blender thing. Best would be - on such an occasion - to show of the best shots from 'Elephants Dream' (to an audience that most certainly has not heard, not to speak of seen any of it) and spice them with comments on new projects in the works. ... Unless, of course, there was a big spender for the blender foundation somewhere in the audience to whom the presentation pratically was directed directly.
It's not like this was some academic discussion on the details of game developement with RAD 3D tools or something that would warant this sort of move.
I think we can - with no offense whatsoever - say it was a marketing misstep on behalf of the foundation and that they shouldn't do that again. And I think its safe to say that Bart is an old and respectalbe enough community member to express this sort of concern.
You should mention this to Ton when the occasion arises. My guess is he probably noticed it himself allready - maybe he was in a jam and wasn't thinking or thought of it not to be such a big deal. (Albeight the Berlinale truely *being* a big deal). Dunno. ... Maybe we need a marketing team :-)
Bart is certainly an old member.. ;o)
Bart, this really doesn't sound like you! Did Big Fan steal your password?
Anyway, I think I have to weigh in here on Sago's side. I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the notion that because the community paid for it, the community should determine how and when and to whom it gets shown. To me this is *not* part of the idea of open content, and it makes me very nervous that the community should presume to put such demands on how the artists choose to create and promote their work. The deal is that when the movie is finished, everything is open. That's what I signed up for. In the meantime, how the BF chooses to document and publicize the project is up to them, as it should be. It's all about freedom, after all, and part of that freedom is the freedom of the creators.
I'm sure that the Peach folks weighed their desire to keep some fun surprises in the movie against their desire to put the best foot forward when showing Blender to a whole new audience, and I think this is the best thing they could have done. I hope (and assume) that the audience at the Berlinale was blown away.
how can we end this dreadful crisis in the community?
another person besides the rogue troublemaker Big Fan had something to think and say for themselves...
I just watched the keynote. Ton did a very good job in it.
About the "BBB clip" I would really appreciated (sic?) if the main article adverted us about spoilers!! I had to mute mplayer when Ton started to give some hints about the story!. On the subject of the Peach team not wanting to release this clip I think it really doesn't matter too much. Actually I think Ton didn't plan to give hints about the story but was very happy while talking in such a good event, and that led him to give the audience a bit of it, just for tasting. Just as marriages that last many years do I think we just have to let it go and wait for the premiere. That day there will be many reasons to celebrate and to be hugging all around!.
By the way Bart (and BN collaborators): MANY THANKS FOR YOUR DEDICATION TO BLENDERNATION! My daily readings wouldn't be the same without you! :)
jedihe
Despite the little spoilers, that was easily the best and most succinct presentation on Blender and Open Source I've ever seen! Great job!
I think the cameraman had the hots for the hostess. LOL
I think everyone is over reacting to Bart's comments. You're beginning to sound like Apple fanbois.
Clearly, no one understands how a corporation works. When people buy stock in something, they generally like to know a lot about it and what their money is going towards. Even in major Hollywood films, the people funding the films require the studios to show evidence of progress. I don't see what it would hurt for the BF to post some clip for its source of income. It's kind of like we want your money for support, but you can't know what your supporting until it is finished. That's not conducive to acquiring more supporters for the BF and its special projects. I agree with you Bart, they should show the 30 sec. clip, even if it's only available to the supporters.
Aaron
Excellent presentation on Blender!!
What an exciting future for Blender. I am especially excited about the VFX project. Can't wait to see the new tools that will be developed for it. What kind of sponsor is Ton looking for? It says in the PDF of Ton's PowerPoint slides that he's looking for a sponsor for the Open VFX Movie.
I can't believe all the crying and wining about showing the spoiler clip to another audience before the Blender community sees it!! You guys have seen the stills, of the big bunny, of the 3 rodents, even a tiny bit of animation. It's the same scene and the same shots. We knew that the rodents were going to be picking on the bunny (Rabbit's Revenge?) We're not seeing too much new stuff here, except a bit more animation of the rodents throwing things at the bunny. Quit your crying!!!
Showing the Peach clip was a good ending to the presentation, especially after showing the clip of Elephant's Dream, in which the audience might ask 'what the heck kind of weird movie is the Blender Foundation is doing?' I didn't even understand why THAT abstract story for ED was chosen, until Ton said in the presentation that the sponsors of ED didn't want the usual, linear, type of story.
I'm not for an open script, where everyone is an editor. It would never get done. Who was it (Matt?) that wrote a great article on this. I'm all for a script contest, though.
I think I had the hots for the hostess too. The other women in the photo series are great looking too!! The Open VFX Movie should have a babe(s) in it. Imagine the casting session, Hee hee.
I think the discontent is just because of loving Blender and the community. I mean, when I saw the hostess proudly saying that they were going to be lucky to see a world premiere, I felt like: "but, we are family, and you go and share these things with some strangers first?".
But then thought, if I had to do a presentation in a festival, and want to show off Blender and impress the audience, would I go with something that I already published on my blog? would I go only with work I've done a couple of years ago? or, would I go with only still pictures to a movie festival?
I think Ton is doing what's best for Blender. I personally like that. And he does it with such passion and love for the community: just see his reaction when Elephants Dream is criticized. He didn't defend Blender as a good tool in that case, he defended the artists, people of this community, showing the complexity they had to deal with.
Blendernation is THE Blender news site and any Peach footage would be a major scoop. Leaving Blendernation out of the loop is a bit of slight, but I don't think that was the intention. Next time they might want to at least give Bart a preview as well (on behalf of the community).
Beautiful presentation.and yes there should be a script contest for the VFX project in the community.
Good show! Ton.R
I'm just trying to picture the server admin for the berlinale going "what the? ...meh!" when he reads his logs today (or monday, but I don't think so). "A trazillion hits from a link to one of our movies? from all over the world? didn't now the festival was _that_ popular... better go buy some hardware for next year. Woohoo, more stuff to play with...ahem...".
I understand both Bart's point of view and Sago's point of view... and I think this is one of those "shit happens at the last minute" that nobody plans for, angers some people, and then it all snowballs into a big mess.
I agree with the wish of Sago not to put spoilers online (remember Elephants dream, people got to see their DVD before it went onto .torrent).
I agree with Bart saying "that's not nice", and also would add that I would like (this is a request, not a demand) to see the movie on youtube or something, just so people outside of the community can better judge the qualities of Blender, and maybe add a link to peach to get all those youtubers to buy a dvd.
However there is one rule in art which goes something like this; 1) the director is always right, and 2)if the director is wrong, see rule 1). (cause that's what directors are there for).
You guys are awesome, ignore anything to the effect of the contrary.
We can bicker among ourselves about pointless things without wasting your time.
Please, rock on.
~Fin
I think of this matter like this:
Insiders = Blender Institute + Peach team + Blender community
Outsiders = Presentation audience
Insiders != Outsiders
Insiders = "share a lot about the development of Blender and its projects and help make Blender the best it can be"
Outsiders = "May not even have a clue of what Blender is and what it is capable of"
Outsiders + Insiders = "All saw the 30 sec almost at the same time"
Outsiders = "happy"
Insiders = "happy" + "happy because Outsiders are happy"
Why would some insiders feel ignored while they've been given most details about BBB even before it is born? + it was just 30sec + they've seen them
@Hoxolotl: as with ED I thing BBB can be uploaded onto a torrent before the DVDs are sent, this way everyone get it on time.. (my ED DVD got here 1.5 months after it was on youtube..)
I have watched the presentation and it looks like the movie is going to be great - and the clip is awesome, so no problem with putting it online (hint hint)
"Insiders != Outsiders"
This is a bit cliquish for my taste.
shul,
when did you order ED?
The intent was to ship them and have them arrive with those who purchased the first batch before it went online.
Perhaps you just got unlucky...
LetterRip
Very good presentation of the Institute, the Foundation and Peach itself. I also enjoyed the outlook on the future project.
Short comment on the discussion: It was clear, that the presentation will get online somehow, as would the short preview do. The short movie is online, with all the extra information needed to get, that it isn't final for now. For me, it actually raised the excitement for the DVD to arrive.
In my opinion, the whole discussion about releasing or not releasing is not nessecary - we saw the same as the congressvisitors. What's the need for an extra release somewhere?
But anyway - discussions on the internet always tend to heat a lot more up than a personal discussion. I therefore encourage you to continue in private - if there's still things to discuss.
Have a nice weekend, guys! =)
@Tom: I was one of the first 1000 , since my name appears on the credits. As for the unlucky part - you could say that; I think my DVD was even sent twice to me before it got here..
But that does not matter, I ordered BBB and hope it will be here on time. But putting the movie (if not the full torrent) on line is something I promote - the movie is going to be out there anyway, so why torture other people (and also, let me remind you that ED's crappy version found its way to youtube right away)
"... discussions on the internet always tend to heat a lot more up than a personal discussion. I therefore encourage you to continue in private - if there's still things to discuss."
@Lars: I could not agree more!! I think that this is because the face 2 face interaction is much more important than we imagine.
I respect Sacha's decision not to make this close-to-final version available online. I think seeing such a version would spoil it for me in some way. However, I do feel that you should extend this secret-y-ness (is that even a word) to everyone outside the institute. What was the reason you showed it? I don't buy the "it was the last minute and we had to bring something" excuse. You have an office full of storyboards, months of pre-viz material and somehow you couldn't bring that?....
Anyway, I guess Bart's comment got me all fired up too. It's not really worth starting a flamewar over. Still love you Sacha! (in a manly, yet strangely touchy-feely way)
What Ton showed in Berlin was his choice. The reason he showed it was to promote Blender, since that's his job. And promoting Blender is in all our interest. The only thing I'm disappointed about is the fact that the 30-seconds had mistakes that were unnecessary (but still better than showing storyboards/pre-viz, which is no promotion for Blender).
How can Ton function as a spokesman for Blender if he has to show everything to the community first? Perhaps because Ton does so much for the community, the community starts to believe that Blender has to serve the community, and not the other way around.
So some people that bought the dvd are disappointed cause they didn't get to see the 30-seconds before the people at Berlinale did. You payed for Blender development and for a movie, and both will happen... alot of people are working very hard on it. How Ton promotes Blender is his business, and in now way do I feel obligated to show the community whatever he shows somewhere else. When it comes to the movie you have to deal with me, not Ton. And the only obligation I have towards the community is a moral one: to deliver a great movie, no matter how tough it is.
For the people that want exclusive front seat, visit us in the studio. The doors are wide open, ask Bart. But for the rest, I'm busy... got better things to.
Peach out,
Sacha
*to do
-sigh-
Thanks for the link! Very good presentation indeed. It seems to me that Blender now starts to get much more acceptance in the professional area.
Durian - what's the low down on this. Has there been an official announcement?
Has anybody ever taste one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durian
Although it is likely to provoke a storm of emotional comment I would point out the gap between what Ton does as he pleases and the community feeling of 'ownership'
In my observation Ton tends to do things in a way that doest engage the community at large especially well.
He says we will have this and that or I have been here or there.
Its not that he isnt good at what he does or accomplishes but he isnt so hot about bringing it to the community in an engaging way
He actually should make these presentations to us cos the only way we really hear now what the reasoning and plans behind these things are at Blender HQ is to see the stuff presented to Siggraph or some other group like this one some time afterward
Some while ago I seem to remember suggesting he make a monthly 5 min blender news video - it could be a Bart interview for Blendernation...
I think something like this would help the community feel a little less out of the loop.
In the end I tend to agree with Bart.
Ton could have made an excellent presentation including some details of the latest Peach movie without showing the animation clip or talking about the story just as he declined them permission pending the artists own premiere of their work.
Myself I blame extreme tiredness for temporarily dulling his ettiquette awareness...but we have been there already ;o)
GO, TON, GO!
This was a great presentation. Thank you.
What happened here was a reaction from the part of Bart just as we have them all the time in our comments. Maybe we are expecting more from his part that we are from ours ? LOL
Isn't it somewhat unfair ?
Reactions, IMHO, aren't very useful.
My own was different and yet all of this is secondary.
Something important is happening with Blender, something which is worth all of our attention and only very considerate comments should be uttered in the present circumstances.
Jean
What I told on the berlinale was old news, on Blender Conference 5 months ago I did the Durian announcement and spoke about open content bizz models as well.
http://download.blender.org/documentation/bc2007/movies/D1_0tonkeynote.mov
-Ton-
So whats your problem folks? It's all up to you to download and watch the Berlinale speak and watch that 30 secs trailer. I for myself will wait for the DVD becomes available and will watch the full featured video and no WIP stuff, possibly spoiling the movie.
My 2 cents..
Pioneers tend to get arrows in their butts from time to time. Not always a bad thing -it keeps you on your toes.
Thanks to all the pioneers represented on this page.
Great presentation that was.
Great site this is.