Development continues full speed ahead on 2.5. Thankfully keeping us informed some developers have been posting youtube videos of new additions/works in progress as they happen. We thank you for this.
*Note: These are early interface development videos. Consider them as such.*
Please be aware you aren't even seeing an actual interface as of yet. I'd like to repeat these are development demos. Nothing beautiful, not concrete and hardly visually complete. Lets not form opinions until we see some real visual elements. The developers know what the community wants and we know they will do their best to ensure that all are properly satisfied to the best their abilities. Enjoy the videos! I will add additional videos to this post as I find them. And as usual if anything big and new develops you'll see a new post on BlenderNation.
I recommend watching them in the order I give them to see how things are developing.
This video shows the first development of the interface with create new window functionality and toggling full screen.
This video shows the scaling of windows being updated in realtime.
This video shows saving of different window layouts. (For diehard non-overlapping interface fans it appears at this stage of development that this will still be easily done.)
This video shows a first test of vertical and horizontal splitting.
This video shows interactive split area with cancel.
This video shows more split features in development. Work is being done to attempt to implement some of the suggestions from here.
Test 2.5 Dev builds are available on Graphicall.
61 Comments
Looks cool! I'm not sure why anyone would want multiple windows though...
@Matt I would say multi-document support. Say one file open with a scene that is linked to another one, etc.
I dont understand that multiple windows thing. That is totally unusable...
I hope you will not destroy Blender's great GUI...
yes! I finally was able to compile blender and sumbit a 2.5 revision build to Graphicall for Mac OS X ppc. I didn't know Graphicall was such an important place.
Multiple windows will be very useful for multi-display setups. I have a dual monitor setup on my computer at home as well as a second display setup for my laptop when docked at my desk at work.
Yeah the new features are cool - except the overlapping windows one. I can't say I'd find any use in overlapping windows.
@ Brian, I can already load multiple instances of blender - so opening multiple files simultaneously is already possible.
@Mike keep in mind multiple instances of Blender takes up more system resources then simply opening up another file.
Paul also gave another great reason. If you watched the videos you will see that its not necessary to have multiple windows.
Looking at the videos, I was worried at first, but I think seeing that there's still emphasis on the panel interface, I'm happy about that.
I think I'd like to be able to create new windows and maybe have them sitting on a seperate monitor, where they all talk to one another. Certainly not every time, but I may want to have all my buttons maximized on one window, and just a single 3D window maximized on another.
Since I dont' really understand video card and window mannerisms, but I do understand that my screen flickers when I stretch an entire photoshop canvas across multiple monitors, I can buy the usefulness here for sure.
I still like the panels overall though. But if you think about it, some people have enough screen real estate, they don't need to switch back and forth between, edit, render, and texture button bars. They can see it all if they want, but multiple windows maybe the only way for that to work well.
Multi-document/window support is VERY welcome in blender on OSX. As it is now you can't open multiple instances of blender on OSX. Thanks!
Someone opening 5 black windows, that's a great tech demo ;)
I don't think the "several blender instances take up more system resources" argument is valid. 99% of the memory and CPU footprint will be due to the loaded project itself, so opening two projects in two instances of blender or in one will be essentially the same resource-wise, two instances having the added benefit that if one project crashes, the other will not...
Yes I totally agree with Paul. I have 4 monitors, and it would be much easier for me to have 4 separate windows instead of one very wide one. And without this new support for multiple windows it would just become a pain when I have different apps running on different monitors. if on one monitor I decide to be using blender, it would show up on all other monitors and block everything else I may be looking at. I'm sure the multiple window support is meant for people with multiple monitors. In any case, I want to thank the developers for this new feature, as it will make working much easier.
"Blender 2.5 on Vista. AKEY, FKEY and CTRL-U work. Warning, this may be boring!"
Haha, I couldn't have said it any better! ;)
@Jen - you can actually open multiple instances of Blender on OSX. You must open the other instances by terminal, or simply by the command line executabile in blender.app->Content->MacOS->blender
Looking forward to seeing this demo as usable to really try out, as I'm at a loss to understand all these comments about how good it will be for dual monitors, is this dual monitors on Windows, Linux or OSX? Is it going to solve problems people have?
Giving choice between non overlapping and not is good and MDI I suppose but I've been using blender on dual monitors since 2.36 and not found it a problem. That's on Linux with NVidia Twinview.
At work I use blender on Windows XP Pro with dual monitors combined with NVidia Desktop Manager set to 'dual' not 'spanned' so apps can be maximised to one screen or other, dragged to the other, sent to a second pair of desktops, or maximised to span two monitors already.
But it's still great to see development and innovation.
@Jen: sure you can open multiple Blender sessions on OSX. The Finder will only let you run one copy, but if you open a terminal and issue the following command, you can fire up as many Blenders as you like:
/Applications/Blender/Blender.app/Contents/MacOS/blender &
Enjoy!
Bart
It demonstrates that some of the code refactoring going on in the UI is in progress, and working (since multiple windows, and some of the updating while moving things would be impossible otherwise).
@ alelink & Bart
Wow thanks a lot! You learn something new every day.
Note that the windows will be overlapping only if you put them on top of each other. As already noted, this is for multi-monitor setups.
I don't think there will be any "multidoc" support (at least anytime soon).
Just to tease you, I'm now working on grabbing those T-joints and cross-joints of areas, so you can resize also with those. Expect new videos!
/Nathan (nletwory aka jesterKing)
I can find uses for multiple windows even on my portable.. Got hot keys to switch desktops and I can see having say a full screen node window on a second desktop very handy.. Not to mention popup file dialogues :)
yay!!!! 2.5 NOT 2.50 im so glad people are not fighting over the number anymore. it really is 2.5, though 2.50 is perfectly acceptable if you like. no bmesh???
Multiple windows???? blaaaaaaaah.
looks cool, but i dont know if this is the right direction for blender
@Everyone Please be aware you aren't even seeing an actual interface as of yet. I'd like to repeat these are development demos. Nothing beautiful, not concrete and hardly visually complete. Lets not form opinions until we see some real visual elements. The developers know what the community wants and we know they will do their best to ensure that all are properly satisfied to the best their abilities.
I'll add this to the main post to ensure that this is clear. I thought my note was enough.
Hi,
Tip: Please improve the look/design of the icons =D
I dont know whats that needed for, but If you're working it, Sure its important :)
What about IK SPLINES ? =)
Sorry guys, I was hoping for a new GUI!
Overlapping Windows (??) make the unclear GUI more unclear!!
Thats rubbish. Nobody needs it!
Multiple windows are for *MULTIPLE MONITORS SETUP*
now if everyone can stop complaining about it
Oh, basically: multiple windows suck.
That's one of the thing that distract new Gimp users so much.
I hope Blender will SUPPORT multiple windows but making it a standard is a really crude step.
One window with scaleable blocks like th current UI is just perfect for most users.
edit: Auria, please stop complaining about complaining people. Not everyone is willing to use multiple windows. Even Wacom support sucks with multiple windows, I'm really sick of this
*General Stress-Reducing Announcement*
Multiple windows are not required. They aren't even encouraged in any way.
They're implement because it's useful for some people who would like to use them at their own will. Blender will continue to use the current non-overlapping concept as it does now, the only difference is that if people want to bring a window to another monitor, they can 'pop out' one of the window spaces on the original screen and bring it over, rather than having to worry about stretching the entire blender across, which often causes problems. There is no multi-document support planned that I'm aware of, and there will be no gimp-like interface. The demo is going to extremes showing it off, because it's a cool new feature for those people who would like to use it, that's all.
I've said it before and said it again. If you've been happy with how Blender developers have been improving the software up till now, it would make sense to trust us to continue doing the right thing. There's no reason to suddenly believe that after all these years and experience gained, that Blender's future is suddenly on a knife edge and that only angry complaining will save it. It's not.
"I hope Blender will SUPPORT multiple windows but making it a standard is a really crude step."
Which is why the Blender developers have not taken it.
"Not everyone is willing to use multiple windows. Even Wacom support sucks with multiple windows, I'm really sick of this"
Then they can stop complaining; multiple windows, as explained multiple times here already, is for spanning your project across multiple monitors. No is being forced to use multiple windows.
Anyway, the new developments look interesting!
hey! I was told that there is another GUI complaint fest going on :)
Just came to dump my cup of gas on the fire :)
Enjoy!
Looks great!
My multi-monitor system will be pleased.
Now we just need customizable icons/buttons with movable positioning/docking, and customizable keystroke and mouse bindings. At which point I'll make my custom UI, learn blender, and seldom if ever use anything else. :)
@Carl Complaint:When I open Blender 2.45 on my computer it takes up 31Mbs with the default scene. Now unless a Cube a Lamp and a Camera are taking up 99% of that, then opening another instance of Blender will add another 31Mbs.
@ccherrett:"hey! I was told that there is another GUI complaint fest going on :)
Just came to dump my cup of gas on the fire :)
Enjoy!"
LOL!!!! Thats a good one!
Catboy85:
np :)
Hey that's cool.
I personally do not use multi-window anything with my two monitors, I tell my computer to treat both as one larger one.
Still, I'm cool with the multi-window thing as long as we have a choice between that and the traditional blender model.
--
Kevin
What a precious thing Blender has become to those of us that love using it. I am not surprised by the volume of responses, and the amount of true feeling this software can generate. Cool!
"/Applications/Blender/Blender.app/Contents/MacOS/blender &"
Ah, where shall I begin to list the reasons why this is not satisfactory? Suffice it to say that the restriction against easy to use, click-icon-to-open (or drag-file-to-open) multiple instancing is the single dumbest thing about Mac OS. I want to slap Steve Jobs every time I am forced back to my Windows machine to do simple things requiring multiple instances of Blender. (Yes, I know how to set up a script so I can click on an ugly old script icon and open a terminal-run instance, but that's still not what I want.)
Basically, Mac is not designed to run software that doesn't have multiple document support. Click on a .blend file and it opens in Blender. Click on another .blend file and nothing happens, which is clearly not what the user wants. So from a Mac user standpoint (which is what I am when I don't need multiple documents open) multiple doc support in Blender would be a very welcome thing.
Great to hear that the multiwindows thing is not standard but a feature (it's not a bug, it's a feature ^^)
Didn't know that, sorry...
DON'T PANIC!
This is not an overlapping interface, though you could set one up if you really wanted to.
The point here is that you can create window instances, whether you choose to do so or keep everything in one window is completely up to you! Choice is not a bad thing, and this is very, very good for people with extra monitors.
So enough with the overlapping windows nonsense.
Mystery
I make my stand at Helms Deep! Who will join me?
I think a new interface for blender is great.
Blender shocks beginner with the non-intuitive GUI. A new one will hopefully helps people getting started with blender.
BUT: i dislike tools with multiple windows e.g. GIMP, DIA.
Working on the image, switch to browser, switch back - and voila, only the tools _or_ the image window appears. Every time i have to manually click on both to get them back to the front.
Ok, i could minimize all other windows.
Sorry for multiple posts - i forgot:
Idea - Add that as a feature. Click on one window, bring them all back. This would be awesome!
Multiple windows is just necessary for multi monitor (and beamer) purposes. I don't understand the complaints.
@ Tony + Jen:
It's really possible to run multiple blender instances at the same time:
Duplicate only the blender.app several times (how many files you want open at the same time).
If you like that all the python-scripts in all instances are anywhere the same than you must rename the folder BlenderOSX/blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/scripts to scripts_bak, duplicate it and move the duplicate to your blender folder (BlenderOSX at my machine) and rename the folder how you like (I named it "blenderinterna"), .
Create a symbolic link with the Terminal from the scripts folder blenderinterna to blender.app/Contents/MacOS/.blender/ and name it scripts. You can duplicate the symbolic link and replace with it every scripts-folder inside all your multiple blender copies. Then you have only one scripts-folder to support and multiple blender instances. You can open some blend-file with drag+drop the blendfile-icon on the unopened blender-instance in the dock.
@Johan who's attacking?
Guys just wait till it has more features... pour some nice red wine/ whiskey what ever you drink and watch this beauty unfold.
Most of this premature fussing could be likened to barping your car horn at the car in front of you while waiting for the red light to change... The ground work needs to be done before we users will see anything we like. I bet the devs are over the moon about this new developments as it will enhance their work flow in the future. Making more options available firstly to them them to us.
Now that is what I was talking about :)
Good to finally see something.
i am *not* a fan of this... just because windows doesn't have multiple workspace support doesn't mean we all have to suffer
@gord: In my windows I can have as many workspaces as I want. Workspaces have nothing to do with the work currently being done for Blender 2.5.
My Windows XP with 4 workspaces: http://www.letwory.net/albums/v/oldsite/console_xoblite.png.html and in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6LDsOF7OlE my Windows Vista with 4 workspaces as well.
/Nathan
Finally a reason to dust off my old monitor, and set up the dual display again. I don't think I'll often use overlapping windows, but it's good that the option is there.
Seriously, this is interesting from a technical and development POV, but watching a video of multiple windows being resized is worse than watching paint dry. And there isn't just one, there's six (6) about that....
MULTIPLE WINDOWS + COMPIZ = AWESOME!! I can already spin the cube round with the tilt on my mouse's scroll wheel, so that makes it extremely quick to change window layouts etc!!... Although I suppose if screen layouts get configureable hotkeys/mouseactions, it would give the same functionality!
For all those people complaining about the videos being boring:
What you're seeing is developer tests of the redesigned underlying framework! What many non-coders don't grasp is that what these videos show, is that all of the hard hours designing and coding the framework within the application have been successful! There a whole new internal API (interface of communications between different parts of the code) going on in there. Most of the GUI you still see lacking would be dead easy to reimplement cheaply and badly, but at the moment the work is going into the internals of the program! All this means is, at the end of the day, you save countless hours hacking later at an incomplete and limiting API to try and implement some feature that won't fit with the badly designed internals! This means less code, less time, less mess, and less bugs!! - as well as the ability to even code some stuff that wouldn't have been possible before on a very fundamental level!!
~epat. :)
thanks for the hard work sounds great so far!
Keeping upp the wery good work Loocks greate so far.
I hope you will be abll to have Blender to maximase to current screen and not to both as of yet.
Jen - running multiple copy of one app in OS X is also possible by... creating a copy of app itself (with changed name)! And since Blender isn't such a space consuming app it's easy to do it.
Holy Cow!
If this turns out the way it looks now I'm already in love with it.
That non-overlapping window layout so far was one of the major things I always hoped to - at least on a few occasions - change.
Sure the workspace is clean with it - but I do like working with overlapping windows now and then.
Also this doesn't mean the non-overlapping layout is forever gone, after all ...
So far it was just a few windows being resized. ;)
Looking forward to how this develops. The YouTube Videos give an idea of how it'll be implemented for sure, but somewhat weird looking until you've seen the stills on the last link. :) Looking forward to this version more and more each day!
Keep up the awesome work!
Awsome!! proper dual monitor suport !!
Why dont these developers go ninja and keep it all secret? then unveil it all at the last minute! I'm sure everyone here will love the new blender! but for now all they can see is their favorite app get torn back to it's baby form, chill out guys the blender developers have a master plan.
... I hope
The part i'm waiting for is the python bindings!