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	<title>Comments on: Blender Model Repository Trouble</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/</link>
	<description>Fresh Blender News, Every Day</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Andrew Kator</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-100299</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Kator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 04:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-100299</guid>
		<description>All of our 3D models are now Creative Commons, and related web pages have been updated to reflect the new licensing. Special thanks to all who donated to cover legal expenses from when we hosted the BMR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of our 3D models are now Creative Commons, and related web pages have been updated to reflect the new licensing. Special thanks to all who donated to cover legal expenses from when we hosted the BMR.</p>
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		<title>By: jacques</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-93074</link>
		<dc:creator>jacques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-93074</guid>
		<description>@Roger,
About Bittorrent sites dying away, there is the counter example of dimeadozen.org, a tracker for bootleg recordings. It is in quite good shape, and you can check torrent availability. I think they have a way of removing bittorrent links for which there is no seeder for a certain time. Adding a forum onto this you would be able to sustain a community more easily. 
Their policy system is interesting because they are even more subject to lawsuits than a blender model repository would be. They have a list of artists that have asked no bootleg records of their work be made available and a couple of people to watch after that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Roger,<br />
About Bittorrent sites dying away, there is the counter example of dimeadozen.org, a tracker for bootleg recordings. It is in quite good shape, and you can check torrent availability. I think they have a way of removing bittorrent links for which there is no seeder for a certain time. Adding a forum onto this you would be able to sustain a community more easily.<br />
Their policy system is interesting because they are even more subject to lawsuits than a blender model repository would be. They have a list of artists that have asked no bootleg records of their work be made available and a couple of people to watch after that.</p>
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		<title>By: TiZeta</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-91862</link>
		<dc:creator>TiZeta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-91862</guid>
		<description>Hi Andrew! I hate what's happened here.
Could that person simply ask you to remove his work? Why sue you that way?
I really don't understand him.
I've  just given my little contribute by paypal, best wishes!

Tiziana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andrew! I hate what&#039;s happened here.<br />
Could that person simply ask you to remove his work? Why sue you that way?<br />
I really don&#039;t understand him.<br />
I&#039;ve  just given my little contribute by paypal, best wishes!</p>
<p>Tiziana</p>
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		<title>By: AppleGrew</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90913</link>
		<dc:creator>AppleGrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90913</guid>
		<description>However safe u try to play but even if u everything legal and a suit is field against u, u will need to fight it out in court. So, u need money. I really feel for Andrew Kator. I would had donated if I had a job. The author in question is certainly not polite and the person who just converted it into blender and uploaded it could have been a teenager or the author in question too. What do u think? A nice way of extracting money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However safe u try to play but even if u everything legal and a suit is field against u, u will need to fight it out in court. So, u need money. I really feel for Andrew Kator. I would had donated if I had a job. The author in question is certainly not polite and the person who just converted it into blender and uploaded it could have been a teenager or the author in question too. What do u think? A nice way of extracting money.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90910</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90910</guid>
		<description>Kardargo makes a great point, but the "prove your innnocence" argument fails in this case. I assume Kator was charged with distributing copyrighted material without consent. So yes, the holder could have uploaded the model under a false or made-up user name, and then turned around and sued. And Kator has no defense because he cannot prove the uploader was the copyright holder. Oh, and everyone, even with all the legalese forms, assuming they are signed in blue ink and notarized, you are still sued even if it is the first step of discovery, you are still a party to the lawsuit. And getting some 19-year-old to hold you harmless and indemnify and pay your lawyer bill - good luck. 

Kator: This would make a really intersting novel or short story or something...maybe you can document and sell your experience with this matter.

The problem with bittorrent is the same as with tutorial links - the original sites fade away and die unexpectedly and frequently. After a few years, the BMR would be half-way bad links, and people would stop even trying. 

All of this means that there will be an enormous overhead in running the respository. For example, indemnification iinsurance to hold a reveiwerr harmless if they fail to spot a copyrighted infraction - i mean, who would volunteer for that job description: "Look at a model and determine if it conflicts with any other copyrighted concept in any other nation in the world over the last 50 years. If you are right, you might make $1 for every download. If you miss one, you will be sued for a million dollars." OMG. Our current litigation mindset is killing entrepreneurship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kardargo makes a great point, but the &#034;prove your innnocence&#034; argument fails in this case. I assume Kator was charged with distributing copyrighted material without consent. So yes, the holder could have uploaded the model under a false or made-up user name, and then turned around and sued. And Kator has no defense because he cannot prove the uploader was the copyright holder. Oh, and everyone, even with all the legalese forms, assuming they are signed in blue ink and notarized, you are still sued even if it is the first step of discovery, you are still a party to the lawsuit. And getting some 19-year-old to hold you harmless and indemnify and pay your lawyer bill - good luck. </p>
<p>Kator: This would make a really intersting novel or short story or something&#8230;maybe you can document and sell your experience with this matter.</p>
<p>The problem with bittorrent is the same as with tutorial links - the original sites fade away and die unexpectedly and frequently. After a few years, the BMR would be half-way bad links, and people would stop even trying. </p>
<p>All of this means that there will be an enormous overhead in running the respository. For example, indemnification iinsurance to hold a reveiwerr harmless if they fail to spot a copyrighted infraction - i mean, who would volunteer for that job description: &#034;Look at a model and determine if it conflicts with any other copyrighted concept in any other nation in the world over the last 50 years. If you are right, you might make $1 for every download. If you miss one, you will be sued for a million dollars.&#034; OMG. Our current litigation mindset is killing entrepreneurship.</p>
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		<title>By: kardargo</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90897</link>
		<dc:creator>kardargo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90897</guid>
		<description>Andrew stated,

"I am simply following what I have been told by my lawyer. As I understand it, the terms of the agreement leave options for the model author to pursue other legal action should we cause "other problems." If the offending model reappears on the web, the model author can find the person responsible and pursue legal action against him. My disclosure of details, including the model in question, would violate the agreement by supposedly preventing the model author from pursuing future legal actions."

It sounds to me as if this model author in question hopes (or knows) the violating model will reappear on another site in order to seek legal action with the pupose of making money out of this. Since the model was uploaded from a wifi-point and the identity of the uploader cannot be determined,  who is to say that it wasn't this model author who uploaded the model in the first place? 

Andrew might consult his legal advisors to check if it would violate the agreement if the identity of this so-called model author was disclosed. This information is probably within the public domain as it is a matter of public record?

If future (or even passed) legal actions by this or these persons come to light it might indicate that we are dealing with some sort of scam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew stated,</p>
<p>&#034;I am simply following what I have been told by my lawyer. As I understand it, the terms of the agreement leave options for the model author to pursue other legal action should we cause &#034;other problems.&#034; If the offending model reappears on the web, the model author can find the person responsible and pursue legal action against him. My disclosure of details, including the model in question, would violate the agreement by supposedly preventing the model author from pursuing future legal actions.&#034;</p>
<p>It sounds to me as if this model author in question hopes (or knows) the violating model will reappear on another site in order to seek legal action with the pupose of making money out of this. Since the model was uploaded from a wifi-point and the identity of the uploader cannot be determined,  who is to say that it wasn&#039;t this model author who uploaded the model in the first place? </p>
<p>Andrew might consult his legal advisors to check if it would violate the agreement if the identity of this so-called model author was disclosed. This information is probably within the public domain as it is a matter of public record?</p>
<p>If future (or even passed) legal actions by this or these persons come to light it might indicate that we are dealing with some sort of scam.</p>
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		<title>By: Ausis</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90831</link>
		<dc:creator>Ausis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90831</guid>
		<description>In fact if there still someone that will continue this repository full running....I think BitTorrent is very useful idea...I think there's still needing copyright control, but bittorrent will save a little bit from little missunderstandings in that dirty copyright thing...I DON"t OFFER PIRAting - NOT - I think it must be tracker filled with clean downloads, that has copyright information description, but In fact copyright thing is so dirty, that gives everyone a chance to bring a lawsuit against you...so I don't believe that someone will not appear who will not like a fact that in repository ( normal server) exists DVD cases, Mac computers images or something like that,,,,the problem is that in copyright law there is nothing clear...that law (i don't know how exatly it's in us and in rest of the world, but in Lithuania we have very unclear copyright laws) leaves just a cause someone to put you under lawsuits.........so a bittorrent tracker will be a i think a good problems solving....

And at least don't you think that that repository is sharing and not a commercial thing...so bittorrent will be good place for free licenzed works...and good avoiding from "IF ....then what..?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact if there still someone that will continue this repository full running&#8230;.I think BitTorrent is very useful idea&#8230;I think there&#039;s still needing copyright control, but bittorrent will save a little bit from little missunderstandings in that dirty copyright thing&#8230;I DON&#034;t OFFER PIRAting - NOT - I think it must be tracker filled with clean downloads, that has copyright information description, but In fact copyright thing is so dirty, that gives everyone a chance to bring a lawsuit against you&#8230;so I don&#039;t believe that someone will not appear who will not like a fact that in repository ( normal server) exists DVD cases, Mac computers images or something like that,,,,the problem is that in copyright law there is nothing clear&#8230;that law (i don&#039;t know how exatly it&#039;s in us and in rest of the world, but in Lithuania we have very unclear copyright laws) leaves just a cause someone to put you under lawsuits&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;so a bittorrent tracker will be a i think a good problems solving&#8230;.</p>
<p>And at least don&#039;t you think that that repository is sharing and not a commercial thing&#8230;so bittorrent will be good place for free licenzed works&#8230;and good avoiding from &#034;IF &#8230;.then what..?&#034;</p>
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		<title>By: Marco Frisan</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90745</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco Frisan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90745</guid>
		<description>I am agree with the others comments authors.

Such a site repository needs a Terms of Use and a "limited liability" legal disclaimer were users state they own the whole responsibility for the submitted content copyright.

Of course, there should be a "abuse report" button.

And, of course, all users should register themself: real name, real surname, email, address, country, nick, password and image test code.

Moreover, users should chose a suitable license for the contents they submit, like Creative Commons licenses. If the content were not compatible, for any reason, with this license, it should not be submitted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am agree with the others comments authors.</p>
<p>Such a site repository needs a Terms of Use and a &#034;limited liability&#034; legal disclaimer were users state they own the whole responsibility for the submitted content copyright.</p>
<p>Of course, there should be a &#034;abuse report&#034; button.</p>
<p>And, of course, all users should register themself: real name, real surname, email, address, country, nick, password and image test code.</p>
<p>Moreover, users should chose a suitable license for the contents they submit, like Creative Commons licenses. If the content were not compatible, for any reason, with this license, it should not be submitted.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90733</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90733</guid>
		<description>I paid my dues ($4) and I think it's scandalous that so many people download stuff from that repository and not even give $1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I paid my dues ($4) and I think it&#039;s scandalous that so many people download stuff from that repository and not even give $1.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianH</title>
		<link>http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90678</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blendernation.com/2007/04/17/blender-model-repository-trouble/#comment-90678</guid>
		<description>@Andrew,

Well, best of luck to you.  I hope Bart's attention to the matter helps with your financial pickle that someone's gotten you into.  It's a shame it took almost a year to get some nice recognition on the situation.  I am kind of curious though, you mentioned that all the models from the old repository will be put back into the new one once the $3000 have been raised and paid off from the fines.  Why would you want to put the old models back into the new repository when you can't verify the originality of them to begin with?  I hope you don't resolve one lawsuit to find yourself in another.

It's also a shame that you're not from the US (or at least I assume you're not).  Here's something you should look at if you haven't already: DMCA 512 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCILLA).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andrew,</p>
<p>Well, best of luck to you.  I hope Bart&#039;s attention to the matter helps with your financial pickle that someone&#039;s gotten you into.  It&#039;s a shame it took almost a year to get some nice recognition on the situation.  I am kind of curious though, you mentioned that all the models from the old repository will be put back into the new one once the $3000 have been raised and paid off from the fines.  Why would you want to put the old models back into the new repository when you can&#039;t verify the originality of them to begin with?  I hope you don&#039;t resolve one lawsuit to find yourself in another.</p>
<p>It&#039;s also a shame that you&#039;re not from the US (or at least I assume you&#039;re not).  Here&#039;s something you should look at if you haven&#039;t already: DMCA 512 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCILLA).</p>
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