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Give your feedback for improving Blenders Sequencer (Non linear film editing)
Published by tom on November 29th, 2006 in Development
The primary developer of Blenders Sequence editor Peter Schlaile has requested feedback and suggestions for improvement of Blenders Sequencer (referred to as a NLE - non linear editor in most other software).
The wiki page for suggesting features and giving feedback is here
The page lists both near term planned improvements, a list of already suggested improvements and changes, and gives space for further suggestions.
If you don't have edit permissions on the wiki, register an account here
Then email your user name to LetterRip AT gmail DOT com for edit permissions.
You will then receive an email back confirming you have edit permissions and then you can add your suggestions.
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Maybe it's easier for everyone to leave their comments here?
leaving comments here would be fine also, I'd meant to put that in the article but it slipped my mind.
LetterRip
I can recommend having a look at vegas video, it's the most usable video editor I've worked with. One reason is you can drag files straight into it. It also has realtime video fx, so no pre rendering and the thubmnail view on the video strip is excellent.
Hi!
For my own, I'm a user of Magix Video Deluxe 2006 Plus.
I use Magix for video editing almost since it exists.
It is a very friendly software with professionnal features at a very affordable cost: about 50 Euros in the standard version with 16 tracks supporting all kind of medias (image and sound) or effects (SFX, Transitions, Titles), and about 90 Euros for the Plus version (32 tracks and more features).
This said, I use Blender video editor for some effects that are not available in Magix, like the Glow effect. I also use it to mix scenes and video, which is only possible inside Blender.
As I like a lot the Blender Glow effect, I'd want to have more amplitude available in the setup of this effect, to get stronger halos from low lights or small sources.
Having a video editor inside Blender is a good thing, but as there are efficient video editors at low cost, I wonder if spending too much time on the NLE part of Blender isn't a waste of time.
It is only my humble opinion, but I think that the energy of the developpers would be better employed if concentrated on the
main purpose of Blender : Modelling and animation.
Users of other 3d softwares will probably not switch to blender because of it's NLE, but because it is a very handy, efficient and complete 3D package.
Philippe.
It would be great if you could hear your audio tracks when using the Mouse Recording feature. Right now, you have to listen to your audio using another application and then fiddle with alignments afterwards.
A option button to disable any Previewing while scrubbing.
i prefer vegas aswell..
@roubal: i think you are right, i would invest more time for other things as for the NLE.
There are a lot cheap (or free vdub) video-editor solutions. Why should i use the kind of unhandy nle editor for compositing.
also if i got 2 edit a wav-file i would use soundforge or wavelab, they got fast workflow for that.
Blender is great, but i think its not good to make it an universal-tool, it will make blender more unstable and hard to use.
I would prefere a more consequent workflow/GUI.
for example holding down right mouseButton have different behaviour in 3dView and nodeEditor.. But Space works in both.. there are a lot of these miniGUI bux.
Also the modifiers need a lot of work…
@@roubal&dave62:
"…there are efficient video editors at low cost, I wonder if spending too much time on the NLE part of Blender isn’t a waste of time."
"There are a lot cheap (or free vdub) video-editor solutions. Why should i use the kind of unhandy nle editor for compositing."
This may be true if you are on mac or windows, but on the linux side there are very few stable NLE's. Blender has become the only usable video editor on "odd" hardware platforms such as PPC.
Regarding comments about diverting developer attention to other areas of blender, in my opinion the reasons people start to develop in OSS / free applications is because that is the area they are interested in either to add functionality to an application for their own benefit / workflow as well as for the community, they are interested in 'developing / maintaining' in the area of their expertise, interest, or where they have good knowledge of the application code, to suggest that they should divert their attention elsewhere is wrong.
Sure blender needs work everywhere and we can all suggest what a developer should concentrate on from our own perspectives but all developer interest should be welcomed and encouraged by the community.
I really like vegas too! I don't I have time to explain every details right now but let's say that the main advantages are:
- Can do lots of stuff in just one click (really fast workflow)
- It's a very intuitive program. You just need 30min to learn how to use it!
One thing that is really hard to use in blender sequencer right now is alpha between clips. You wasting lot of time to select clips in the right order, select the good alpha effect and redo the whole thing if you didn't choose the right alpha FX.
A alpha propretie in the Srip Propreties can improve the workflow a lot!
My pipe dream? Node-based effects for NLE.
I'd love to have node graphs for strip effects. Entering edit mode for a strip in NLE would create a simple input>output graph datablock where I could make use of all the great color correction/effect chains. The datablock could of course be applied on groups/metastrips.
a small overview about the whole film would be great. i mean, like the navigator in adobe premiere. so you shouldn't move all the time from beginning to the end, instead, you had an small overview over the whole sequences.
it would be fin, if that navigator could be in such a small floating window, like the curve-widget or the transform-properties (shortcut N in the 3d-view)
@ROUBAL:
yes, the sequence-editor isn't an editors-dream… but you should see, that the sequencer was the lost part of blender, before peter wake it up… so wait a short time and it will be full production-usable!
greetz
Yes,the easy way to import .tga or .png files and they can see lower layer not to add alpha effect.
Easy to cut /move frames ,option of export file.
And How can I import .tga file to edit in Gimp. Gimp change my image. Alpha part change to black and color part change to alpha.
I think the blender sequencer should be released and advertised as a standalone application. (even if the 3d features are only simply hidden in the gui.) In my opionion that could bring lots of users to it. you dont recommend a 3d editor to someone who just wants to edit a video. the blender sequencer is one of the best video editors in the free software world (well at least if sound synchronisation would work on linux) - lets learn from mozilla that standalone applications have their advantages.
I think we really need for it to be able to open audio files besides .wav (e.g. Mp3, ogg)?
Like Kernon said: A option button to disable any Previewing while scrubbing.
The other option: Threora output.
IMHO: Blender definitely needs this tool!
One thing and one thing only.
Sound. Allowing to control fade in and fade out of sound. Right now all you can do is cut down the track and reduce total sound level. And fix the mentioned things in wiki page. (chosing one sound system and perfecting it ;))
have a look at Motion from Apple, It's all based in the outbut view and focuses on Realtime art and motion graphics playback. Very smooth to use.
I believe that integrate Blender using Verse Protocol with http://www.virtualdub.org or http://www.jahshaka.org or any another free tool is better than create a complete editor sequence inside of the Blender.
****The audio strips in the Sequence Editor need to have an accurate wave sample image. In other words the reference image of the wave file needs to sync up with the audio during playback and scrubbing. This makes it easier to lipsync and time video from a visual prospective. Currently the image that shows up on the audio strip is useless. There is also the need to be able to render video along with the audio for Windows.
I use Vegas Video as well. I don't expect Blenders sequence editor to ever have all of the features of a professional non linear editing package. I believe the developers need to keep improving it but for the most part keep focus on modeling and animation tools.
Use the sequencer as an interface to create nodes in the compositor. When you add a movie to a strip, what is accually happening is you are adding an image node and setting it to movie then setting its frames to the length of the movie and finally setting its output to a mix node to allow you to add it to the current composition. If you want to add an effect, you can add the specific effect node between the image node and the mix node. You get the idea.
It needs work. That's the only thing I can say. More features and more flexibility.
i do some free lance video editing and would be realy interested in a stable linux video editor so i think it is great that blender offers a nle. i also think that when there is a good nle blender can be a good allround motion graphics production solution when there is a good plugin structure for the nodes (to add effects).
features i would like.
*preview of first frame (the firs frame shown in the clip bar on the timeline)
*audio wave forms in timeline (use them a lot when editing conversations an surounding sounds)
*easy linking and unlinking of sound to a clip on the timeline.
*crosfading (when you have two clips do fast scalable crosfade between them ==clip1====clip2==) like in final cut pro
*linking clips to effects for the overview (the effects are a part of the clip bar on the timeline)
*effects keyframing
*scale rotation location effects (keyframable)
*doing a render to disk of imported blender scenes in the timeline.
*assign [spacebar] to play [c] to cut [f] to crosfade [e] to effect
*make a video editing panel so you dont have to use the same tools you use in the 3d space for nle stuf (change render to export etc. to make it more accesable for users)
The ability to use nodes for Sequencer operations would be fantastic, especially if data can be grabbed and used from all appropriate internal Blender output (or even other Blender files). Maybe Sequencer output could even be fed back into Compositor/Texture node networks?? The sequencer will soon develop into a very powerful and important feature, in my opinion.
for those who want to disable previewing- I don't know if this is what you want, but you can just turn of the sequencer image preview in visible windows. In the default blender sequencer layout, that window has no header, but if you add one to it, you'll be able to change from image preview to sequencer strip display, or change it from a sequencer to something else.
err,for compositing right? not just for editing (cut to cut)
-some node edit (vector) for masking would be nice (like aftereffect) so i can put the effects only in the masked area
-sound mixed with avi output (windows)
-more output option like swf,3gp,mpeg etc and size variations
-flexible codec or more codec
-easy DIY plugin developing, so it can more richer
-node compositor (the one for map/images) can be applied to NLE.(i really hoping for this one)
* the distinction between HD and RAM for adding strips in the editor isn't very clear, nor is t intuitive that you can load diff. formats with it (linux)- RAM seems to mean "the old way" while HD means "the ffmpeg way"
* audio ram clips preview the waveform , but audio HD clips do not
* relative paths works for HD soundclips but not for RAM; RAM soundclips have absolute path soundblocks, even though the strip itself uses a relative path- worse, it fails silently, you don't realize untill you move your files.
* very easy to inadvertantly create one frame gaps between abutted clips- several remedies possible here-( a change in background color of a frame if it is "empty" vs "has content"- gaps would show up as darker lines, or , suggested by matt, when you push one strip into another and it displays red, it snaps next to it with no gap instead of jumping up to another track)
* inserting clips is in the middle of a full edit is cumbersome- there needs to be a way to "push" the strips after backwards, without zooming out, selecting, moving, zooming in.. etc.
* when zoomed out on a small enough clip it becomes very hard to select the whole clip for moving, instead of the end markers.
* personally I don't like the visual noise from frame previewing in strips; if this is planned, please make it optional.
these are ideas/suggestions, not demands :) I'm quite happy with the recent developments in the sequence editor, and look forward to whatever the developers have up their sleeves.
ooh, one more:
*when opening clips, RAM openable clips get lttle colored squares next to them indicating they are openable; HD clips are unmarked, making them harder to find or discover.
Being a Linux user with a limited tool set available I see great use and potential for the sequencer. I currently use cinelerra for my video editing but the blender sequencer is light weight with an opengl interface which makes it usable on lower end machines. Cinelerra recommends ( or at least they did before they went opengl effects ) a dual processor AMD server with 4 GB of ram to run. That said blender sequencer would really change the way I did things.
I recently was working on a project where I had a video captured at 10 fps that I wanted to sync with an audio clip. The sequencer would not let me sync my clip to my audio. Cinelerra detected the length of my clip based on actual time of the clip where as the sequencer pulled it in based on the frame count. It would be nice to be able to adjust frame rates for individual clips. I hope that makes sense.
@5to11 :
Quote - they are interested in ‘developing / maintaining’ in the area of their expertise, interest, or where they have good knowledge of the application code, to suggest that they should divert their attention elsewhere is wrong. - Quote
I hadn't thought about that, and I think that you are right.
@anders_gud : you'r right too… As I know very few about available softwares under Linux,I didn't thougt there was a lack in the area of NLE for this OS.
@simhar :
I think that the strength of Blender NLE is in the fact that it allows very interesting operation that can't been done outside : like compositing while rendering between a 3D scene and some already rendered sequences.
Also it allows some interesting effects (Glow for example) which are not available in the low cost editor I use.
If Blender NLE becomes a complete editing program with all functions present in high cost programs, it is great, and I'll applause and say a big thank you ! My only fear is that the developpement of these features could slow down the developpement of the main structure. After reading the post of 5to11, This fear becomes to vanish. But like Dave62, I also have a fear about stability if Blender files grows up…
But as I'm really hopeless at programming, my fears may be totally unjustified !o)
Philippe.
I, personally, really like the sequencer. It surprises me how much I use it. There are a few things that would make it significantly faster for me:
1) Automatic Alpha Over. You import a strip of background images and place them on a layer, then import a strip of foreground images with alpha transparencies and place them on a layer above the background images. Done. No more Add images, add images, convert to premult, right-click, shift-right-click, space, Alpha Over, (c, switch ab if neccessary)… I go through that a lot!
2) MP3 import. Yeah, I know it's not as high quality as WAVs, but It's what most of my stuff is saved as. This would save me the step of converting my MP3s to WAVs
3) This one is a bug. I don't know if it belongs here, but I thought I would bring up because it costs me a lot of time. I'll take a meta-strip (with two image strips and a filter) and use it with an image strip and another filter. When I preview or render, the meta-strip will occassionally strobe (random frames get dropped). If I go into the meta-strip and preview it, then go back out and preview or render, the strobe is gone. It would be nice to not do that anymore.
One more thing. The only solid way to create screen capture videos in Linux was to record a vnc session with vncrec. I then can use transcode to convert the .vnc file to an .avi. At that point I can import it into the sequencer. If I could import .xpm image files it would save many many hours of work on each video and it would be faster making my blender tuts. vncrec can dump xpm files very fast and to be able to then import them into the sequencer as a strip would be great!
@Bassam
Yeah, I know about turning off the preview that way but, it's just a bit cumbersome. Especially, if you have more than one window setup for previewing.
Also, for those concerned about this distracting the developers, remember that there are many developers involved and they have their specialties. This development will be handled by the NLE specialists. So, there's no distraction, just more needed development.
–> does *anyone* use the "reverse frames" feature?
Anyway, I think that the sequencer has come a long way since I first fiddled with it. look & feel & probably code are better now. The demo at siggraph blew me away, it's really that good.
I think we should look at it as a good bases for something bigger, and I agree with everything said about programmers doing what they want to in the open source community. It's good peter took this over.
As for me, I think more control will be good, more help from the tool (when I first tried using it I actually opened the code to understand what is up), many other plug ins , and a better SDK for them - last time I checked it was per-image plugins only.
@GKPW:
You can do sound fading using an IPO curve. See this page (it's not a tutorial but, it mentions how to control the sound level via an IPO curve):
http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Audio_Sequences
I know this would require a lot of work, and I've mentioned it berfore… BUT, I still think blender would be better off if it ditched FFMPEG and migrated all video and audio IO to gstreamer. Here's why:
-It's multiplatform and acts as a nice abstraction layer to system specific APIs
-It's fast, low latency
-It takes care of sync and frame accurate seeking issues
-It still offers access to FFMPEG codecs, as well as others
-It's less code, smaller footprint and easier to manage
-It would unify the sequencer and game audio io
-It's isn't stuck in CVS limbo (it has release versions)
Second, I like that you can have a http based frame server. This is nice, especially if you need access to it from a remote machine. But not all programs can use it. Could you look into implementing a file node based setup like AviSynth3? (it's still experimental, but is to be multiplatform)
@Kernon: "It would be great if you could hear your audio tracks when using the Mouse Recording feature."
Really don't know about the "mouse recording" feature. Could you explain a little bit? (Sync / scrub works for dragging the mouse over the timeline and hearing the scrubbed audio…)
@dave62: "Blender is great, but i think its not good to make it an universal-tool, it will make blender more unstable and hard to use."
Don't really understand. The sequencer is a NLE integrated into Blender, that works like the rest of Blender, not the other way round. Also, I can't see the stability issues… BTW: I simply like the sequencer for the way, it's interface works…
@Ron7: Regarding "implicit alpha over": is already in the wiki. But it is good to hear, that intrr is not alone with his ideas… ;-)
@Jakub: Regarding "Node-based effects for NLE". Would be nice the way brecht wrote a patch. It adds an additional effect strip that fires up the compositor at that place. Ton doesn't like the idea. You can read about it in the patch tracker:
https://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=4920&group_id=9&atid=127
@simhar: "small overview about the whole film aka preview thumbnails on the timeline" As bassam, I don't like this idea very much because of speed reasons. (I personally haven't missed such a feature, but maybe I was in the lucky position of knowing the key positions of the edited movies rather exact in advance…)
@Kai: "blender sequencer as a standalone application" Well, then it won't be the "Blender Sequencer" right? ;-) Seriously: I like the Blender sequencer in its integrated form a lot, for the following reasons:
- Titleing can be done directly within the 3D-Scene editor
- 3D-Transitions can be build directly within the 3D-editor
- Compositing can be done easily in the same program.
If you don't like that, maybe Blender isn't your tool of choice for video editing, since I consider that key features, which, when removed would make that thing rather useless to me…
@Noodlesgc: "open audio files besides .wav" Just use a ffmpeg enabled build, and there you go. Will add ffmpeg input support to Audio (RAM) soon.
@GKPW: "sound fade control". Is included. Just use the IPO of the sound track and enjoy. Serious mixdown capabilities are in the TODO-list.
@bestfx: "integrate Blender using Verse is better then complete editor sequence". Do not agree. See my comment to Kai. Besides: Verse is the totally wrong protocol for that.
@midije: "audio wav preview not accurate enough". Could be worked on. Need to think of really _fast_ solution. (I consider the way cinelerra does it, as slow…) Focusing on other parts: Hey, I like working on the sequencer. Why should I do the things in my spare time, that YOU want me to do?
@Digital FX Artist: Please take a look at https://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=4920&group_id=9&atid=127
and have a discussion with Ton about it. I personally like the idea of "Compositor effects", but I understand Ton's concerns. If you have any idea, that makes everyone happy, then the tracker is maybe the right place to discuss it.
@gman:
- preview of first frame:
Sounds like a doable solution. Is that enough preview for everyone?
- Audio wave forms. Have to think of a fast way of doing this. Maybe do some background importing / rendering.
- easy linking of clips: Is in the Wiki. Have to think of a consistent way with the rest of blender.
- crossfading. Since I do not own Final Cut Pro, please explain a little bit more.
- linking clips to effects for the overview: Do not really understand. Please explain. (You can see, which effect clips are connected already …? )
- effects keyframing. Do not really understand. You noticed "IPO frame locking"?
- scale rotation location effects: Is called Transform and already in CVS.
- doing a render to disk of scene strips: If I do the "Bake" effect, that should be already included there. But maybe adding a simple button to the "Scene"-Strips could also do the trick. Will think about it.
- assign spacebar. Spacebar will always add in the timeline because of interface consistency with the rest of blender. To make it play, simply move your mouse to the preview window.
- make a video editing panel: Hmm. Most of the render options also apply to the sequence editor. For a consistent interface, don't think that can be done in a nice way. But if you have any concrete ideas, mock up graphics, will look at them.
@alyx:
https://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=4920&group_id=9&atid=127
and comments above…
@Bassam:
- Distinction between HD and RAM isn't "old" and "new". Both are usefull if done right. If you want to load the sample directly into the Blender file: use RAM, if you want to keep sound on disk, use HD.
- Preview of audio on HD-tracks: Have to think of a fast way to do that.
- Relative paths not working on Audio-RAM: to put it simple: it can't work, since the samples are packaged with the Blender file. You should use Audio-HD for what you want. What could be done: add a reload button to the soundblocks (and save the original file name somewhere in Blender)
- Easy frame snapping: sounds usefull. Will add.
- Inserting clips in between: Hmm. This is really a problem, but don't have easy solution right now.
- Zoomed out clips not easy to edit: Ouchie, haven't noticed.
- Don't like "preview thumbnails": Me too ;-)
@peter:
to prevent to be misunderstood: i meant something like this:
http://www.tutorialguide.net/images/adobe_premiere/0001/008.jpg
it's a small map of the whole editing, with all the videos, transitions and sounds visible
Fist of all, as Bassam said, these are ideas/suggestions, not demands.
My english is far to be perfect, so have this in mind: I don't want to bash blender's NLE, but just sharing some ideas:
I think the efforts should be focused in the upcoming UI redesign of Blender.
The main weakness, IMO, is the lack of an optimized workflow between Blender and the NLE (and probably with the node compositor soon).
NLE and Node Compositor should work together. Effects should be moved to nodes and the NLE should only provide editing features (cutting, trimming, crossfades, etc.).
Assets should be arranged in time using the timeline and later composed together (if needed) using the node compositor.
The best way to do it would be using the NLE layers as node inputs, not manually but automagically.
Imagine this: You have renders of a background, a character and foreground effects. You just have to load the three strips to the compositor one above of each other, choose a mixing tipe and when you go to the compositor, you have the basic setup done. Now it's time to animate settings and add extra nodes for special effects.
It would be fantastic, wouldn't it?
Well, maybe I'm loosing it :-) , but if that is possible, the editing needs would be completely different and the NLE team could focus in them instead of adding functionality that could conflict with other areas.
In the editing field, trimming is needed. Professional editing uses this method: You have assets (capture, renders, etc) you trim the raw material into individual clips then arrange them in the timeline.
This is made with two viewers, one for trimming, other for the timeline. This is usefull for assuring continuity. You see the out point of the timeline and the first of the trimmed clip or vice-versa.
The isolated clip is dragged to the timeline, or dropped into the insertion point (replacing or displacing the existing clip in case there is one).
Blender uses a less effective approach: you open the raw material, put it in the timeline and cut it using the Kkey. This is slow and less effective.
But, if we plan to add this feature, we also need better assets management
One of the most important things in editing is how the assets are managed and the productivity it provides.
The file manager or the image browser (or a new library panel) should give the possibility of dragging and dropping media material into the timeline.
Having clips available would be specially useful for repetitive tasks.
Other things would be extremely usefull in the NLE:
- automatic alpha over (better if there's a selector for the mixing tecnique)
- manual pre-rendering and caching of mixes and overlays for better performance when playing
- frame skipping on play (optional, for a realtime approximation achieving the selecter frame rate)
- better audio scrubbing/synchronization
- Splitting the timeline in two areas (video and audio) would be more "standard" and easy to the eye.
- Add switches for mute/solo/block tracks.
Well, as I said befor, this is just my opinion and is intended to help and not to bash.
Thanks for this chance to express it.
i'm still kind of new to blender/3d, but started a 3d vlog a couple of months ago. (part 2 is finished, i'm just waiting for the music now.) i wanted to use the blender nle for finishing my animation, but just could not do it because:
the plug-ins/filters i needed either did not work or did not exist (those i found only gave some error message, after looking in forums i tried to use an older blender version that was supposed to work with those filters, but i could not get it to work) - so what would be needed is:
• more composite modes/basic filters (many are missing, i needed "darken" combined with gaussian blur)
• it would be great if the nle editor was more intuitive, simpler. i personally like final cut pro, but most nles today work similar: when you add a filter you just drop it on a particular shot/timeline instead of having an extra timeline for the filter/effect/title. it's nicer to work with, easier to learn and just looks cleaner if you have lots of effects.
i am very impressed with blender and as a film maker i now plan to move more towards 3d/combine more traditional methods with 3d. while i found blender rather hard to learn at first, i soon realised i could trust the app (if something does not work it probably is not a bug but some detail you've missed) and because everything is very well documented.
still it took me quite a while to understand and get used to the blender key frame editor - this was the greatest source of frustration for me so far. and i did have some experience with keyframe animation in final cut pro. i mention this because:
• it would be great if the keyframe editor could be more intuitive so that you can easily use filters in the nle editor via keyframes (i'm not sure how/if this can be done at the moment)
another thing i needed for my last project was:
• slow-motion/speed manipulation for clips (again i don't know if this can be done, i just did not find a way to do it)
so all in all maybe:
• a simpler, modern ui à la final cut pro (or avid etc.), all standard composite modes, standard set of filters (like gaussian blur, sharpen etc.) that work with the latest blender release and a simple, easy to use keyframe editor. and of course a good documentation.
to the above discussion about the usefulness of a nle in blender:
for mac os x there is no open-source nle editor that i could find that works on my system (i tried jahshaka, but i looks like it needs os x 10.4 and i only have 10.3.9 at the moment). i'd love to be able to produce/finish a complete animation just with blender - if this can be done without risking to make the app buggy…
hey, that discussion is not about: where doe the developement focus on in the future, it's about the developement of one part, made by one man…!!!
@Reuben:
Switching from ffmpeg to gstreamer: don't like the idea, see why:
"-It takes care of sync and frame accurate seeking issues"
doubt that, looking at the code. I had a lot of twiddling with ffmpeg and I'm still not finished doing timecode based seeks.
They simply seem to assume, that ffmpeg can seek by itself, which is not true on mpeg files for example. But maybe some gstreamer expert can enlight me.
"-It still offers access to FFMPEG codecs, as well as others"
some old version, not updated, when I checked last time.
Additional problems: maybe I misunderstood the documentation, but I was under the impression, that you have to hand over the event loop to gstreamer to make it work. I doubt, that you will convince Ton (or even me, and I'm a little bit crazy ;-) on this.
———-
To make a long story short: I will add a plugin interface for audio / video to blender. If you want to write an input / output plugin using this interface, that uses gstreamer, I will not step into your way. But I don't think, that gstreamer is the final answer to everything…
"Second, I like that you can have a http based frame server. This is nice, especially if you need access to it from a remote machine. But not all programs can use it."
Hmm. That is interesting. Just write a plugin for the other program?
"Could you look into implementing a file node based setup like AviSynth3? (it’s still experimental, but is to be multiplatform) "
Don't know, what the sense is here. Let's take a look: within windows, you can overload the DLL-calls to AVI-opening. That is the way, virtualdub does the trick. Within Linux you can… wait there is no AVI-library to overload. So the best thing here is again to simply write a small "glue" daemon, that translates the calls.
—
Don't want to bash here, but I don't think, that it is that easy. If I simply have misunterstood your ideas, please feel free to correct me.
@indiworks:
"more composite modes/basic filters (many are missing, i needed “darken” combined with gaussian blur)"
just use blur node and mix node in darken-mode?
" it would be great if the nle editor was more intuitive, simpler. i personally like final cut pro, but most nles today work similar: when you add a filter you just drop it on a particular shot/timeline instead of having an extra timeline for the filter/effect/title. it’s nicer to work with, easier to learn and just looks cleaner if you have lots of effects."
I doubt that, since effect strips can combine several tracks to one output track. And that output track should be still controllable. I personally like Blender's interface here very much. What is really that hard on "select track 1, select track 2, press space bar, add effect"? If your timeline gets gluttered you should think about using metastrips to group your work in a sensible way.
"it would be great if the keyframe editor could be more intuitive so that you can easily use filters in the nle editor via keyframes (i’m not sure how/if this can be done at the moment)"
You can do that already. (that's what the IPO window in the upper left is for.) If you want to let the IPO act on frames, switch on "IPO frame locking" in the effect properties. Hope, that helps.
"slow-motion/speed manipulation for clips (again i don’t know if this can be done, i just did not find a way to do it)"
Good news to you: is in CVS now and very intuitive. You can even sync your video to audio on a per frame basis.
" a simpler, modern ui à la final cut pro (or avid etc.), all standard composite modes, standard set of filters (like gaussian blur, sharpen etc.) that work with the latest blender release and a simple, easy to use keyframe editor. and of course a good documentation."
Don't like the interface of Avid (that is really more ported from the Atari-world…), don't know of Final Cut Pro, but if there are interface key elements, that are nice, please add them to the wiki.
If you ment the IPO-curve editor of Blender by "keyframe editor": if you get accustomed to it, it is really nice.
And always remember: the interface of the sequence editor is supposed to work like the rest of Blender not like "Name your favourite video editor". We can borrow ideas, but the main idea is to make a consistent and efficient look and feel for Blender users.
- crossfading. Since I do not own Final Cut Pro, please explain a little bit more.
for example:
==clip1=========| |=========clip2=====
end^ ^start
now when you rightclick on the point where the enpoint of clip on touche the begin point of clip2 you ge a menu with options and one of them is ad crosfade (or however they call it) when you select that option the picture looks like this:
==clip1========={> | effect
this is a clip with 2 effects:
___________
| clip
|___________
=========== >effect
=========== >effect2
this is a clip with a effect and a transition effect:
___________
| clip
|___________
=========== >effect
oops! blender nation messes up all my ascii explanations :(
it also makes half of my text mesage dis apear..
Hi im also some of those that like the sequence editor quite a lot, what i miss is more integration between nodes/sequencer, i mean if we have nodes why not use it with the sequencer and vice/versa. I dont know exactly the amount of trouble would be to mantain such code, but i think that it is a resource not being well used.
I'll comment more on this later, but a couple quick things.
indiwork, check out HyperEngineAV. It is a commercial Mac video editor that became open source recently. I haven't tried it yet since I'm on windows, but it looks like it has many professional features:
http://www.arboretum.com/products/hyperengine-av/hav_main.html
The windows state of video editing isn't as good as some assume. For free programs, there is Windows Movie Maker and Avid Free DV. Both are closed source and have some restrictions (WMM only exports to WMV and DV for instance, AvidFreeDV is limited to few tracks, etc).
I've been looking for some time and have found NO usable open source editors for Windows. Jashaka I check from time to time but has a lot of issues. It seems like the editing portion isn't worked on as much as the other features, and there's been a lot of weirdness with team conflicts. It was not usable the last time I checked it a couple of months ago. Virtualdub is not an editor. You can do some very very basic things (concat two clips together.. cut out a portion of a clip) but it is not made to be an editor. It is basically a compression tool where you clean up your video with some filters and compress it. Avisynth has some great capabilities but it has no GUI and more importantly it can't handle opening many source files at once. If version 3 can fix that, perhaps a GUI can be built on top of that version.
hy sorry for this unorthodox way of posting but when i just posted in reaction to Peter Schlaile i made some ascii explenation of features and blendernation now onely show's half of my mesage so i copied my post it in a textfile and uploadet it to a fileshare lot off banners thing you can find here:
http://w10.easy-share.com/695529.html
sorry for this i think my ascii graphics are filtered out by blendernation becouse of the sql insert securety or something like that.
I'd like to throw it out there that I've been using Sony Vegas exclusively as of this year because of it's awesome crossfading method.
it's also the only NLA that has real native 5.1 surround sound.
@gman:
if I understood you correctly this time: crossfading will somehow close the gap between to clips. May I ask, what video information should be used in between? Just the still begin or end frame?
My solution to this would be more like: just let people drag the two clips into each other. That will simply cross fade. If you want to do advanced fading, you will have to add a seperate effect track as before. Does this also makes you happy? (Is even easier then the final cut solution…)
Close gap doesn't really work right now. Has to be fixed.
"linking clips to effects for the overview": I'm not very convinced after the explaination. I add effects to more then one input track all the time. And I don't want to get confused. You seem to only stack effects on one track all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong or show me, what you want to do any better in the case of 2 input tracks to an effect.
@Gez : You wrote :
- Splitting the timeline in two areas (video and audio) would be more “standard” and easy to the eye.
Well, having used this kind of soft for a time before switching to Blender and magix, I think that it is the less friendly system. It is used in some simple editors like those provided when you purchase a camcorder, or Windows Movie Maker.
The main problem with this way of displaying the tracks is that synchronizing Video and audio files is more difficult. For example when you want to add a shotgun sound just when the muzzle flash appears, it is easier to have the sound strip just under the image strip. And if you want later to edit or change a sound file through the dozens of strips, it will be much easier to find.
Having the ability of placing any kind of media exactly where you want is really handy. For user who like the other way, it is easy to decide to use thracks 1 to 5 for video, and 6 and over to audio, for example. There is no need to change the NLE structure for this, because the current one allows both modes at the own convenience of the user.
@simhar: When I said to focus in the future UI redesing I rather meant to have it in mind. Maybe this is a good opportunity to do it and focus in real editing functionality instead of things that could change in the next months and freeze aspects that could be work when the interface is reworked.
——
@Roubal:
I understand your point, but:
-That division is the standard in almost every single NLE in the market
-That structure has a purpose: Audio and video tracks are linked and have common track locations: When you drag an AV clip into track V1, its audio goes to A1, and so.
-I'm not sure about the synchro problems with that structure: if you have a muzzle flash in V1, you move the play marker to that point and insert the audio clip of the "bang!" there in A1. If you can see the waveform and the playback bar, you can synchronize everything.
Anyway, I do not hate the current layout (I think it's more flexible), but I think the other structure is more effective in production work because you can have better track of the assets and their locations.
-The division between audio and video allows to have specific switches in a track header (for example: a gain slider in audio, an opacity slider in video)
——
@Peter Schlaile:
The crossfade system gman described works together with trimming in the sense that it uses the preroll and postroll material previous to the trimming of the clip.
If the clip has preroll or postroll information, then it's used to the mix, if there is no extra roll, the first frame freezed is used (generally with a warning of insufficient media).
The mixing takes place in the same track/layer. You put both clips in contact (outpoint of the first by the inpoint of the second) and you drag the efect over the contact point.
The complete duration of the transition is over that part, in halves by default (but you can change the both sides duration independently).
Cinelerra uses almost the same method, you can check it there.
Another idea for a feature:
-timeline markers (allow to put flags to identify easily and faster important points in the timeline).
@Roubal: Thinking better, that switches I say could be easily IPO channels. Maybe that's not that critic, but I still don't know… I find the other structure a little more solid (IMO, sometimes too much flexibility sacrifices order or, at least, puts it in risk).
@Gez:
The timeline window supports markers.
@Peter:
Re: Mouse Recording
http://blendernewbies.blogspot.com/2006/11/progress-meter-using-your-mouse-for.html
As one of the more prolific seq plugin coders, there are several sugestions I would like to make:
1) give all float aware (version 4) plugins float input buffers. Currently, a ver4 plugin can get either float or char input depending on the nature of the input strips. This means that you have to either duplicate your code for both char and float operation or convert char input to float for your effect and the convert back to char for output. This not only adds alot of extra code to each plugin but if you stack a few plugins it wastes alot of cycles just converting back and forth for each plugin.
2) We need more of blenders buttons available to plugins. Currently there is only LABEL, NUM, NUMSLI, or TOG buttons available to plugins. I figured out how to add a TOG3 button and have used it alot in several plugins but I was not able to to get any of blenders other buttons to work. I did manage to use a TXT button in framestamp but recently found out that the way I did it, it would only work if the TXT button was the last button in varstr[] (the text string returned overwrites any cast variables below it-never noticed before because it was the last button I added to framestamp). MENU, ROW, and working TXT button would come in very handy for plugin coders.
3) It would be nice to have a more flexable layout for the plugins. Right now, all of the buttons are just put into columns of 6. The only way for a coder to change the layout of a plugin is to add a label button here or there to organize the columns.
4) I think it would be more consistant(and useful) if a LMB drag in a seq preview window would show the current pixel colors like the render window and the uv/image window do instead of scrubbing.
@simhar: When I said to focus in the future UI redesing I rather meant to have it in mind. Maybe this is a good opportunity to do it and focus in real editing functionality instead of things that could change in the next months and freeze aspects that could be work when the interface is reworked.
@Peter Schlaile:
The crossfade system gman described works together with trimming in the sense that it uses the preroll and postroll material previous to the trimming of the clip.
If the clip has preroll or postroll information, then it's used to the mix, if there is no extra roll, the first frame freezed is used (generally with a warning of insufficient media).
The mixing takes place in the same track/layer. You put both clips in contact (outpoint of the first by the inpoint of the second) and you drag the efect over the contact point.
The complete duration of the transition is over that part, in halves by default (but you can change the both sides duration independently).
Cinelerra uses almost the same method, you can check it there.
@Roubal:
I understand your point, but:
-That division is the standard in almost every single NLE in the market
-That structure has a purpose: Audio and video tracks are linked and have common track locations: When you drag an AV clip into track V1, its audio goes to A1, and so.
-I'm not sure about the synchro problems with that structure: if you have a muzzle flash in V1, you move the play marker to that point and insert the audio clip of the "bang!" there in A1. If you can see the waveform and the playback bar, you can synchronize everything.
Anyway, I do not hate the current layout (I think it's more flexible), but I think the other structure is more effective in production work because you can have better track of the assets and their locations.
-The division between audio and video allows to have specific switches in a track header (for example: a gain slider in audio, an opacity slider in video)
Please erase that last duplicated comment. I'm having problems with my connection and I don't know what happened :-(