RealFlow Information Booklet and T-shirt

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closeup.jpgDuring Siggraph, the RealFlow/Next Limit booth was giving out informational booklets and t-shirts.  The back of the books and the front of the t-shirt had an image of the number “4″ written in python to indicate that the newest version of RealFlow had python scripting abilities which was highlighted with the words “RealFlow” and “Scripting Features” in bold.  However, it seems that the marketing company hired by RealFlow must be HUGE Blender fans.

It turns out the python script used for the number 4 logo wasn’t even for RealFlow, it was a Blender python script!  Bart and I journeyed to the RealFlow booth and inquired about it.  They were fairly embarrassed since they must have handed out hundreds of the books and t-shirts with the logo.  My big question for them was why they didn’t use a better script (they used a demo script).  Obviously the designer must have did a serach for python scripts and came across this one.  Here is a shirt and a close up of the text.

fullshirt.jpg    closeup.jpg

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    • http://jogai.nl Jogai

      I want that shirt !!!! And wich fluid system is better?

    • Koba

      Haha!

      Someone should make a post about this in the cgtalk news section! Seems Next Limit is inadvertantly advertising Blender. This may be a way of getting a little recognition. ;-)

      Koba

    • Vladius T

      yeah .. post at CGTalk! nice blender add, seriously =)

    • tmr232

      Ha ha!

      That’s so hillarious!
      How in hell didn’t they notice it? I mean, it’s not like it’s hard to see it’s a Blender script, it says “import Blender” for heaven’s sake!

      lolz!

      post on CGTalk!

    • LetterRip

      err artists are not known for their programming capabilities. I’m sure they were just told ‘python scripting’ and were not given example code so used what they could find on the net (though a bad idea to not check copyright and such…).

      LetterRip

    • Calvin

      Yeah, not everyone knows about blender, maybe the artist thought the word “Blender” was part of the python language.

    • http://pitel.borec.cz Pitel

      Just lol :D

    • konick

      just no comment -.- but nice for the blender comm =)

    • Peter

      Hilarious …. I love it. Makes me wish I was there to get one.

    • http://www.thoro.de thoro

      Haha – great!

    • http://www.albartus.com/ LOGAN

      WOW a Blender 4 t-shirt!! (I hope all blender fans picked one up ;)

    • http://www.blendernation.com Eugene (etr9j)

      I am kicking myself for not getting one. I didn’t even bring back a promotional book (which were everywhere). I think the t-shirt in the picture is Wybren’s.

    • http://www.sympodius.com Sympodius

      hee hee

    • MagicMyshu

      awesome!

    • http://www.blog.ohweb.com.ar Gez

      I wouldn’t like to be in that designer’s shoes.
      Poor guy.
      XD

      @Eugene: Did they offer an apology, at least?
      Isn’t there a legal issue here? Isn’t this a GPL license violation?
      I bet Richard Stallman could find a use for this situation XD

    • joeedh

      lol. oh man, that is hilarious, that just makes my day.

      :)

      Joe

    • Laughing Cheese

      Say Eugene, are you using the Blender webplugin for the popup snapshots?

    • peter

      serious fun!…
      wish i was there!

      yesterday i was fiddeling with the fluids and i found out that you can also use a displacementmap with the fluids :) ubercool!

    • Steven Brown

      What do you mean, GPL violation? They’re obviously distributing the code! :)

    • http://gunnarstahl.org Gunnar Stahl

      @LetterRip
      “err artists are not known for their programming capabilities.”
      Otherwise they wouldn’t be artists, would they? (-;

      @GEZ
      At first I was thinking “GPL violation? You’re kidding! The GPL is all about distributing the sourcecode.”. Then it came to my mind that they violate the “give credit where credit is due” rules. So yes, they violate the gpl. Could easily dig up the gpl paragraphs, but I leave that for the curious.

      But the real question is here: Why not hug our new friends? Why not create a sort of a win/win-situation here? The code was taken from blender, so talk to the realflow people and discuss with them this issue. Something like Realflow and blender teaming up for a small marketing campaign. We promote their professional solution while they make a small feature about blender and the integrated fluid system. Let the marketing droids of blender and realflow sit together and come up with a real cool marketing add that shows the best of both worlds!

      If they are not willing, sue them.

      Yt,

      Gunnar

    • Sonic TH

      While realflow is great I’m sure, I can’t see them plugging a free program that does fluid sim when they want people to buy theirs.

    • rcas

      ABOUT the Designer: He surely uses Blender 3D …

      ABOUT Next Limit: If they would integrate Realflow in Blender as a Plugin it would be a major deal, don’t get me wrong, the current Fluid Sim is good, but Realflow really kicks ass.

    • Dutchie

      Perhaps it’s a subtile hint of things to come? :P

    • http://www.blendernation.com Eugene (etr9j)

      @Gez
      They didn’t apologize, probably since that would have been an admission of fault (which would be better not to give since if there were any legal ramifications, they could blame others). I really wasn’t looking for one though since I was more interested in if they knew. Gunnar Stahl is right though about the credit were credit is due though… so this could be construed as a GPL violation.

      @Laughing Cheese
      The image popups is from a Word Press plugin called Lighbox (http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/). I just link the thumbnail image to the main picture and the plugin does the rest!

      @rcas
      I’m totally with you on getting a RealFlow plugin for Blender. RealFlow can do a lot more than our grid-based fluid system (I remember playing with version 3 and it blew my mind). Plus it would help Blender become more central to production pipelines if Blender can play with other applications in that pipeline.

    • ecks

      Did anyone post it on cgtalk yet? can’t find it but don’t want to double post something. That’s quite funny :P

    • rcas

      @ecks: Go ahead and post it, people will poke if it has been posted already. And make it buzz with a title like “Next Limit, Realflow advertising Blender 3D”, it should be a cool one.

    • http://www.hamsterking.com JoOngle

      *Oh hold on me*

      I nearly fell off my chair with laughter. Talk about adverting-department screwup,
      …help….nearly…can’t …breathe…. Must stop laughing…

      Thanks for the news – brightened up my day x 4!

    • martinvdk

      Gunnar said:
      —–
      If they are not willing, sue them.
      —–

      The script is released under GPL, and since they are not taking money for the t-shirts, I don’t think you can sue them ;-)

      Agent Blender; Mission: Infiltrate RealFlow, and become a designer! Secretly promote blender! :-)

    • TroutMask

      please don’t post this on CGTalk. it’s not a big deal, it was obviously a mistake, and although i do see the humour in this, let’s not give the cg world the impression that the blender community is made up of pricks.

    • Vladius T

      dont listen to TroutMask – he doesnt get the idea. do post on CGTalk .. even blender’s add must be free =))

    • http://gunnarstahl.org gunnarstahl

      @martinvdk
      Hi, not to go to deep into this discussion: But the gpl is not about taking money. The gpl is a licence under which you are allowed to use a product.
      And the gpl states that if you publish something which is under the gpl, then you have to comply to the rules of the gpl.
      And one of these rules is to give credit. So if they (Next Limit) distribute a product (like this shirt) which is a derivative work of a gpl’ed product (the python script) then they have to comply to the rules of the licence (gpl).
      Whether or not they take money for their product (derivative work) doesn’t matter at all.
      For anyone interested in the legal stuff here: Take a look at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
      Section 3 states what Next Limit should have done to use the script. Section 1 gives a hint about taking money for your derivative work.

      So again, imhoaanl (in my humble opinion as a non lawyer) Next Limit does not comply to the gpl, thus violating it.

      But: The really important thing is: This was a mistake. So as I stated in my first post, we should give a hug to them and offer them a fun way out. Something which shows them that we blender heads are not legal droids wrapped in a suit. Show them that we are creative and have a real good sense of humour. Make something together. Something cool and fun.

      But then again, if they ignore us, we should show them that even we can be taken serious.

      Yt,

      Gunnar

    • http://www.blendernation.com Eugene (etr9j)

      Well said Gunnar!

    • epat

      man!! o.o – seriously funny!! trust people to pick up on “GPL violations” and the like though; I personally think it’s a genuine laugh and shouldn’t be taken quite so seriously, especially as it was just a mistake! anyway, I just hope you had a chance to hand them a *free blender demo disk* while you were about it ;) … -epat

    • TroutMask

      [quote]dont listen to TroutMask – he doesnt get the idea. do post on CGTalk .. even blender’s add must be free =))[/quote]

      no, i got the ‘idea’. did you properly understand my point? doesn’t look like it.

    • http://www.moditory.com [t0rc]

      Now now, behave. No need to turn this into a crappy back-and-forth comment session. You both disagree, we’ve got it.

      As for the mistake it is pretty funny. I’d hate to be the marketing/advertising director right about now. It does seem to be an unintentional mistake, not a malicious one. Even though they are in violation of the GPL I would contact them about it first and see what they are willing to do / have to say instead of moving directly to a law suit. They should be willing to amend the mistake to BF satisfaction. And certainly, as Gunnar stated, if they cannot or are not willing to remedy this error, BF needs to show them that the GPL is neither just something to make OSS seem official nor simply a scare tactic with no enforcement.

    • TroutMask

      -if they cannot or are not willing to remedy this error, BF needs to show them that the GPL is neither just something to make OSS seem official nor simply a scare tactic with no enforcement.

      i agree with enforcing the gpl as you suggest, but not with the extortion that was suggested previously (ie., provide a blender plug in or we’ll sue you) nor the posting in other forums for public ridicule.

    • joeedh

      how are they in violation of the GPL? the manual is open content, not GPL.

    • MagicMyshu

      I agree wholeheartedly with gunnerstahl!

    • joeedh

      btw, even if the script *was* GPL complaining and taking legal action, just because realflow put it on a shirt they gave out for *free*, would be utterly stupid and idiotic.

      Joe

    • http://gunnarstahl.org Gunnar Stahl

      @joeedh
      Right and wrong. The script is part of the manual and does not state anything like a gpl note. Therefore: You are right, the script seems not to be gpl’ed.
      Wrong, because this doesnt change the situation. The manual is licences under the open content licence. So from the legal laymans point of view speaking, they are allowed to use the content of the manual, provided that they stick to the restrictions of the ocl. Take a look at the ocl here: http://download.blender.org/documentation/htmlII/a11911.html#appendix_licenses_ocl
      Section 2 states what they should have done to comply.

      Now why I am saying this? This whole discussion is in no way about revenge or pointing the “you’re stupid suckaz” finger at them. It is much more about this door that opened up in front of us. The chance which suddenly apeared right in front of us. Something we might have wanted to come for a long, long time. And this chance, this door, is about promoting blender.

      So, take a walk to the Next Limit guys and knock on their door. Show them the shirt and offer them a fun way out. Something like a nice little marketing video, done with realflow _and_ blender. Showing how good both products are. Just be cool about it. Tell them that _we_ are cool about this shirt. And we think that this shirt (as Durchie stated) might have some reality forecasting abilities. That blender and realflow, as different as they are, can be combined for doing high end cg. And turn this into a situation where there is no loser. No one needs to lose his face on this thing.

      And for the idea of posting this at cgtalk: This is in my opinion _veeeeeeerryyyyy_ counterproductive. This would just show that we have not matured yet. Yes, it might be some fun for the moment. But what would be the outcome? Would people take blender more serious then? Guess not. Being taken serious comes from acting serious.

      Yt,

      Gunnar

    • joeedh

      Gunner: realflow wouldn’t see it as a fun way to get out. They’d see it as exactly like it is: an attempt to extort free publicity.

      it’s stupid and wrong. and the BF will never go for it.

      joeedh

    • http://barbeau.daniel.free.fr/ Dani

      Hello,

      This is a fun situation indeed ^^. Although I understand the both-win situation where Gunnar would like to see this end to, I just simply doubt that the NextLimit guys and the BlenderFoundation can come to some cooperation of some sort. It would be a nice thing to see, yes! I simply doubt it’s feasible. But maybe could Ton Roosendaal acheive this (he seems to have magical capacities after all!) ^^

      And I also disagree about posting this on cgtalk. It wouldn’t be nice for a lot of people.

      Dani

    • rcas

      1. Next Limit will only want to know about Blender when Big Studios ask for it.
      2. Next Limit doesn’t care about the T-Shirt, they have lawyers to deal with this sort of things and it was given for free. The only thing they would do would be a public announcement giving credit to the author and some appologies.
      3. It was already posted on CGTalk as a funny thing.
      4. Next Limit doesn’t like Blender because it has Fluids for free ….

      – Rui –

    • Steven Brown

      This thread is getting way stupid. It was a mistake, and they’re obviously rather sorry about it, and it’s not like they’re continuing to make more shirts regardless. Leave it be.

    • http://www.handturkeystudios.com Groo

      If you read the actual text used in the design/script, you’ll note that even the comments from the script are included. These are the comments that describe what the script is: “Demo Script for Blender Manual”. That could *easily* be construed as credit/attribution and therefore this is NOT at GPL violation. The BF has not been harmed and there is no “card to play” with the Realflow people.

      This was a graphic designer’s mistake. And a funny one. But that’s all. There’s no angle to play here… and even if there were an angle to play, it would be a counterproductive move that no one would want to comply with.

    • joeedh

      Groo: hay you’re right! cool.

      So. No Open Content violation, no problems.

    • Calvin

      Wow, you guys are “still” talking… Get a life!

    • varomix

      I have one, a nice blue realflow/blender t-shirt